Algae issues, plants not doing well, don’t know where to start

[Rhonda]

I am having multiple issues I need help with.  I have somehow knocked my tank out of the nitrogen cycle trying to fix my plants.

55gallon tank

water parameters:

temp:75

PH: 7

ammonia: 0

Nitrite: 2ppm

Nitrate: 5ppm

GH: 4 degrees

KH: 4 degrees

I have a FluvalSmart 3.0 (using Bentley’s basic settings) which I decreased the by 50% on Monday - water is a green/brown.

Using Easy green liquid and root tabs.  
My fish and snails seem to be doing ok. I have also done a 20%water change twice this week. (3 days apart). 

I know I have several issues, I’m just not sure where to start.

what I think are my issues:

nitrites too high

staghorn algae

algae growing on leaves of the plants

low Manganese for Tiger Lilly 

low magnesium for Java fern

light is too much or not enough

 

This is my first planted tank and I am failing miserably.

[KBOzzie59]

Here it is in one concise video.

 

[Rhonda]

On 2/10/2021 at 3:03 AM, Colu said:

It looks  like it could be   be dropsy  with a possibly secondary bacterial infection  treat with maracyn and aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 2 if you have live plant I would Qarantine and treat

 

16 minutes ago, KBOzzie59 said:

Here it is in one concise video.

 

Thanks! I had watched this several times before, but after watching it again, I heard new information.  Irene has great videos!

[Mmiller2001]

The green water is 2 prong, and the staghorn is related. You had an ammonia spike and too much light intensity. Sounds like you are on track. I just battled 3 rounds of green water and a massive staghorn outbreak. Drop that light intensity and photo period. 8 hours is good with 6 hours at max intensity (50%). Dose Seachem Excel or spot dosing Excel will destroy the staghorn. This will help mentally. The green water needs to be UV'd, micron filtered or run a blackout on the tank. UV is very effective. Once you clear the water, you can bump light intensity back up but go very slow. 

[Mmiller2001]

Also, stop using root tabs. They are Hocus pocus.

[StephenP2003]

1 hour ago, Mmiller2001 said:

Also, stop using root tabs. They are Hocus pocus.

That's an interesting claim that I haven't heard before. Any sources on this?

[Brandy]

4 hours ago, Rhonda said:

I am having multiple issues I need help with.  I have somehow knocked my tank out of the nitrogen cycle trying to fix my plants.

55gallon tank

water parameters:

temp:75

PH: 7

ammonia: 0

Nitrite: 2ppm

Nitrate: 5ppm

GH: 4 degrees

KH: 4 degrees

I have a FluvalSmart 3.0 (using Bentley’s basic settings) which I decreased the by 50% on Monday - water is a green/brown.

Using Easy green liquid and root tabs.  
My fish and snails seem to be doing ok. I have also done a 20%water change twice this week. (3 days apart). 

I know I have several issues, I’m just not sure where to start.

what I think are my issues:

nitrites too high

staghorn algae

algae growing on leaves of the plants

low Manganese for Tiger Lilly 

low magnesium for Java fern

light is too much or not enough

You are right that your nitrites need to come down. But your nitrates need to go UP. I would just start by trying to hold the nitrates at 20ppm, and see if that amount of easy green solves most of the other problems. 

I have seen that staghorn in my tanks likes high light low nutrients. I would therefore fertilize more and stick with the lower light setting until your plants start to grow more. 

[StephenP2003]

4 minutes ago, Brandy said:

I would therefore fertilize more and stick with the lower light setting until your plants start to grow more. 

100% agree.

[Mmiller2001]

1 hour ago, StephenP2003 said:

That's an interesting claim that I haven't heard before. Any sources on this?

EI dosing only. And prior to switching to Aqua soil, he used Black Diamond Blasting sand.

https://scapecrunch.com/gregg-zydeck/

Edited March 12, 2021 by Mmiller2001

[Koi]

@Mmiller2001 are you saying root tabs or better yet nutrient rich substrates have no place in growing aquatic plants?

[StephenP2003]

2 minutes ago, Koi said:

@Mmiller2001 are you saying root tabs or better yet nutrient rich substrates have no place in growing aquatic plants?

I just read the whole interview he linked. There should definitely be a distinction between root tabs being "hocus pocus" and "not necessary" -- the latter of which is true in many cases (and likely in OP's case based on the plants she's growing). Gregg Zydeck's tank is on one end of the spectrum -- an established high-tech tank full of stem plants wouldn't benefit from root tabs, whereas a fairly new setup with crypts and swords in gravel would most certainly benefit from them, particularly in the beginning.

Probably the most important bit of advice from that article is to find the plants that like the "soup" you're serving.

[Mmiller2001]

13 minutes ago, Koi said:

@Mmiller2001 are you saying root tabs or better yet nutrient rich substrates have no place in growing aquatic plants?

Absolutely not. I'm saying root tabs are unnecessary to grow amazing tanks. They do little to provide what the plants already have access to in nutrient rich aqua soils or in inert substrates with proper column fertilization. I also believe that root tabs are causing more problems than they solve. They add an unknown amount of nutrients into the tank while many people are blindly pumping all in one fertilizer into the water column. Few can really properly navigate problems that arise from adding so much fertilizer. Especially new comers to the hobby.

Hocus pocus.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Mmiller2001

[Koi]

17 minutes ago, Mmiller2001 said:

I also believe that root tabs are causing more problems than they solve. They add an unknown amount of nutrients into the tank while many people are blindly pumping all in one fertilizer into the water column.

I can definitely get behind the idea that people are are using fertilizers incorrectly and there is some validity to not needing to use root tabs. But I have to disagree with root tabs being hocus pocus and I don't mean any offense by that all. I feel there is a time and a place where root tabs can be used but doesn't have to be. It is just an extra tool for us to use, after all everybody has different methods/approaches that better suit what their goal is. After all root tabs are mostly just dry salts inside of it.

I think a lot of what you're saying comes down to the fact of user error not the tabs itself. Its the same way as saying ei method is faulty because half the people dose the non limiting amounts of fertilizers but choose not to do the water changes or they think that high co2 means good co2.

As @StephenP2003 mentions, a distinction should be made, but in my opinion it's between high level aquascapers and home hobbyists. I'm sure the guy in the article has no problem with tearing down his tank and reconstituting his aquasoil every so often. I don't think many people, I myself included, want to go through that hassle and amending substrate is a lot easier/cheaper option.

Personally I find most of the stems I grow do much better in nutrient rich substrate and less heavy handed dosing. I actually have a lot of more finicky stems that will stunt due to the typical ei ranges of dosing. Since I'm too cheap to buy aquasoil, root tabs/osmocote better suit my needs.

Even for the beginners, who may not understand how often they should be feeding their plants. Root tabs can make up for whatever is lacking in the water column if nutrients ever bottom out.

For the most part I do agree with you though I just think not everyone has the time or patience to dose everyday and root tabs is a good fail safe. As I said earlier it being misused is more to blame because of lack of knowledge/understanding.

[Mmiller2001]

10 minutes ago, Koi said:

I can definitely get behind the idea that people are are using fertilizers incorrectly and there is some validity to not needing to use root tabs. But I have to disagree with root tabs being hocus pocus and I don't mean any offense by that all. I feel there is a time and a place where root tabs can be used but doesn't have to be. It is just an extra tool for us to use, after all everybody has different methods/approaches that better suit what their goal is. After all root tabs are mostly just dry salts inside of it.

I think a lot of what you're saying comes down to the fact of user error not the tabs itself. Its the same way as saying ei method is faulty because half the people dose the non limiting amounts of fertilizers but choose not to do the water changes or they think that high co2 means good co2.

As @StephenP2003 mentions, a distinction should be made, but in my opinion it's between high level aquascapers and home hobbyists. I'm sure the guy in the article has no problem with tearing down his tank and reconstituting his aquasoil every so often. I don't think many people, I myself included, want to go through that hassle and amending substrate is a lot easier/cheaper option.

Personally I find most of the stems I grow do much better in nutrient rich substrate and less heavy handed dosing. I actually have a lot of more finicky stems that will stunt due to the typical ei ranges of dosing. Since I'm too cheap to buy aquasoil, root tabs/osmocote better suit my needs.

Even for the beginners, who may not understand how often they should be feeding their plants. Root tabs can make up for whatever is lacking in the water column if nutrients ever bottom out.

For the most part I do agree with you though I just think not everyone has the time or patience to dose everyday and root tabs is a good fail safe. As I said earlier it being misused is more to blame because of lack of knowledge/understanding.

Well said. I might be slightly biased with my recent root tab nightmare!

[Koi]

@Mmiller2001 all of your other points are totally valid and and I'm with you on those

Edited March 13, 2021 by Koi

[StephenP2003]

59 minutes ago, Mmiller2001 said:

Well said. I might be slightly biased with my recent root tab nightmare!

I have definitely heard horror stories with DIY root tabs causing ammonia spikes.

[Mmiller2001]

15 hours ago, Koi said:

@Mmiller2001 all of your other points are totally valid and and I'm with you on those

Here's his journal from another forum. It's very interesting. I hope some people here will find this and have a look.

He never uses root tabs.

When I stopped root tabs, many of my problems went away. I'm still learning, aquascaping is definitely not my forte, but if show stopping tanks are acheived in inert substrates with no root tabs, I'm sold. A Hocus pocus money grab preying on the uninformed. 

[Daniel]

56 minutes ago, Mmiller2001 said:

 A Hocus pocus money grab preying on the uninformed. 

I keep a lot of very happy aquariums without heaters, filters or even cycling them. But that doesn't mean that heaters, filters or cycling are hocus pocus money grabs or that people who use them are uninformed.

It just means that there is often more than 1 path to achieve a result.

[Mmiller2001]

9 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I keep a lot of very happy aquariums without heaters, filters or even cycling them. But that doesn't mean that heaters, filters or cycling are hocus pocus money grabs or that people who use them are uninformed.

It just means that there is often more than 1 path to achieve a result.

At some point, those things are necessary. Except maybe a Walstad. Root tabs are never necessary and are a fraud. Terrible analogy.

[Koi]

Hey @Rhonda sorry we kinda took over your thread but I wanted to share my opinion with what might be happening in your tank. But first how old is your tank, and how old are the plants in it? Whats your filtration like?

From your pictures shown, algae wise, its not that bad. And you could be right about the manganese deficiency but I feel like that might not be the case. When looking for deficiencies it will be apparent on a lot of your plants and these things tend to happen over a long course of time. Very little of it is needed and easy green should provide enough. Plus if you are using root tabs on your tiger lotus that shouldn't be a problem. When looking for trace element issues, you want to look at your faster growing plants to come to that conclusion. But you do have a better view of your tiger lotus than I and you could be right.

None the less, I think your issue is inadequate dosing. How much are dosing in a week and can you send a picture of your whole tank? By looking at your nitrates alone, I am almost certain you are more likely deficient in multiple nutrients. Something to keep in mind is that if you are missing one or two nutrients it can show up looking like another deficiency. Sure you have some nitrates but if you are missing phosphorus or potassium the plants can not use any more other nutrients until it reaches optimal levels of all nutrients.

For your lighting, it could definitely be too much or not enough. You could either turn down the light or dose more easy green. Thinking of lighting as a nutrient itself, and the more light you give creates higher demands for nutrients. If you like the lighting schedule you have now try more nutrients.

Remember also, algae doesn't occur because of excess nutrients (too a point) but I see it more commonly with absence of nutrients. The best way for your plants to not get algae is to provide enough food so that they grow faster than it takes for algae to grow on them. When plants starve out, they begin to get for lack of a better word "sick" and having an unhealthy plant mass makes it more susceptible to growing algae.

If you haven't stopped reading at this point I'll just mention shortly that you can actually just pull the stag horn algae off the plants by hand. Stag horn can happen multiple ways. To list some would be not enough water movement through the tank, imbalance of nutrients/unhealthy plants, or excess iron. At this moment I would look into water flow, if you can visibly see the all the leaves in your tank move a little like grass in the wind you should be good.

Hope you're still reading through this thread, we may have gone a little off the beaten path but I'm sure all of us want to get your tank back to shape

 

@Mmiller2001 I think you forgot to post the journal. I'm still interested in reading it if you could post it

Edited March 13, 2021 by Koi

[Mmiller2001]

1 hour ago, Koi said:

Hey @Rhonda sorry we kinda took over your thread but I wanted to share my opinion with what might be happening in your tank. But first how old is your tank, and how old are the plants in it? Whats your filtration like?

From your pictures shown, algae wise, its not that bad. And you could be right about the manganese deficiency but I feel like that might not be the case. When looking for deficiencies it will be apparent on a lot of your plants and these things tend to happen over a long course of time. Very little of it is needed and easy green should provide enough. Plus if you are using root tabs on your tiger lotus that shouldn't be a problem. When looking for trace element issues, you want to look at your faster growing plants to come to that conclusion. But you do have a better view of your tiger lotus than I and you could be right.

None the less, I think your issue is inadequate dosing. How much are dosing in a week and can you send a picture of your whole tank? By looking at your nitrates alone, I am almost certain you are more likely deficient in multiple nutrients. Something to keep in mind is that if you are missing one or two nutrients it can show up looking like another deficiency. Sure you have some nitrates but if you are missing phosphorus or potassium the plants can not use any more other nutrients until it reaches optimal levels of all nutrients.

For your lighting, it could definitely be too much or not enough. You could either turn down the light or dose more easy green. Thinking of lighting as a nutrient itself, and the more light you give creates higher demands for nutrients. If you like the lighting schedule you have now try more nutrients.

Remember also, algae doesn't occur because of excess nutrients (too a point) but I see it more commonly with absence of nutrients. The best way for your plants to not get algae is to provide enough food so that they grow faster than it takes for algae to grow on them. When plants starve out, they begin to get for lack of a better word "sick" and having an unhealthy plant mass makes it more susceptible to growing algae.

If you haven't stopped reading at this point I'll just mention shortly that you can actually just pull the stag horn algae off the plants by hand. Stag horn can happen multiple ways. To list some would be not enough water movement through the tank, imbalance of nutrients/unhealthy plants, or excess iron. At this moment I would look into water flow, if you can visibly see the all the leaves in your tank move a little like grass in the wind you should be good.

Hope you're still reading through this thread, we may have gone a little off the beaten path but I'm sure all of us want to get your tank back to shape

 

@Mmiller2001 I think you forgot to post the journal. I'm still interested in reading it if you could post it

Woops, sorry about that.

 https://www.plantedtank.net/threads/greggz-120g-rainbow-fish-tank-scapecrunch-interview-1-18-2021.1020497/

[Rhonda]

2 hours ago, Koi said:

Hey @Rhonda sorry we kinda took over your thread but I wanted to share my opinion with what might be happening in your tank. But first how old is your tank, and how old are the plants in it? Whats your filtration like?

From your pictures shown, algae wise, its not that bad. And you could be right about the manganese deficiency but I feel like that might not be the case. When looking for deficiencies it will be apparent on a lot of your plants and these things tend to happen over a long course of time. Very little of it is needed and easy green should provide enough. Plus if you are using root tabs on your tiger lotus that shouldn't be a problem. When looking for trace element issues, you want to look at your faster growing plants to come to that conclusion. But you do have a better view of your tiger lotus than I and you could be right.

None the less, I think your issue is inadequate dosing. How much are dosing in a week and can you send a picture of your whole tank? By looking at your nitrates alone, I am almost certain you are more likely deficient in multiple nutrients. Something to keep in mind is that if you are missing one or two nutrients it can show up looking like another deficiency. Sure you have some nitrates but if you are missing phosphorus or potassium the plants can not use any more other nutrients until it reaches optimal levels of all nutrients.

For your lighting, it could definitely be too much or not enough. You could either turn down the light or dose more easy green. Thinking of lighting as a nutrient itself, and the more light you give creates higher demands for nutrients. If you like the lighting schedule you have now try more nutrients.

Remember also, algae doesn't occur because of excess nutrients (too a point) but I see it more commonly with absence of nutrients. The best way for your plants to not get algae is to provide enough food so that they grow faster than it takes for algae to grow on them. When plants starve out, they begin to get for lack of a better word "sick" and having an unhealthy plant mass makes it more susceptible to growing algae.

If you haven't stopped reading at this point I'll just mention shortly that you can actually just pull the stag horn algae off the plants by hand. Stag horn can happen multiple ways. To list some would be not enough water movement through the tank, imbalance of nutrients/unhealthy plants, or excess iron. At this moment I would look into water flow, if you can visibly see the all the leaves in your tank move a little like grass in the wind you should be good.

Hope you're still reading through this thread, we may have gone a little off the beaten path but I'm sure all of us want to get your tank back to shape

 

@Mmiller2001 I think you forgot to post the journal. I'm still interested in reading it if you could post it

It has actually been interesting to see other points of view.  I’m just so new, that I appreciate it.  
 

Today:

nitrites still 2

nitrates up to 10

all other parameters the same
 

I started this tank about 4 weeks ago, but most of the plants were in my other tank for about 6 weeks before I moved them over.  The Java ferns are one of the first I bought.  When I cycled the new tank, I moved the plants, driftwood, some rocks and about half the media from my other tank.  It cycled in about 2 weeks so I added some of my fish.  I left a 9inch pleco  and a 7inch Rainbow shark in the old tank.  My nitrate levels were off the chart with the pleco and the plants were great in that tank. I noticed the algae almost 2 weeks ago so added some Nerite snails and changed to Bently’s lighting then I had an ammonia level pop up to .25 so I freaked, did a 50% water change and have had problems since.  I read that doing such a large change may have thrown off my bacteria. Ammonia has been back at 0, but nitrites have gone up, so I’m doing smaller water changes.  
 

Waterflow: I had a power head in the tank but then removed it thinking I had too much.  I have an all-in-one Uniquarium, which I feel may have been a mistake, but hopefully once it balances, it will be easier to take care of.  So, coarse sponge filters and bio balls are up the back of the tank.  Then it’s pumped back in.  I added the power head back when the ammonia spiked.

I was doing the easy green once a week and was worried that I was over fertilizing since I had started with root tabs and then the liquid fert.  I understand now that I am UNDER fertilizing.  I did another small water change this AM and added more easy green.  I removed as much of the stag horn as I could, but I can’t get it off the smaller leaf plants. I also bought some seachem Excell today, I haven’t dosed the tank yet though.  I will add a tank picture separately.

 

thanks!!

 

[Mmiller2001]

3 minutes ago, Rhonda said:

It has actually been interesting to see other points of view.  I’m just so new, that I appreciate it.  
 

Today:

nitrites still 2

nitrates up to 10

all other parameters the same
 

I started this tank about 4 weeks ago, but most of the plants were in my other tank for about 6 weeks before I moved them over.  The Java ferns are one of the first I bought.  When I cycled the new tank, I moved the plants, driftwood, some rocks and about half the media from my other tank.  It cycled in about 2 weeks so I added some of my fish.  I left a 9inch pleco  and a 7inch Rainbow shark in the old tank.  My nitrate levels were off the chart with the pleco and the plants were great in that tank. I noticed the algae almost 2 weeks ago so added some Nerite snails and changed to Bently’s lighting then I had an ammonia level pop up to .25 so I freaked, did a 50% water change and have had problems since.  I read that doing such a large change may have thrown off my bacteria. Ammonia has been back at 0, but nitrites have gone up, so I’m doing smaller water changes.  
 

Waterflow: I had a power head in the tank but then removed it thinking I had too much.  I have an all-in-one Uniquarium, which I feel may have been a mistake, but hopefully once it balances, it will be easier to take care of.  So, coarse sponge filters and bio balls are up the back of the tank.  Then it’s pumped back in.  I added the power head back when the ammonia spiked.

I was doing the easy green once a week and was worried that I was over fertilizing since I had started with root tabs and then the liquid fert.  I understand now that I am UNDER fertilizing.  I did another small water change this AM and added more easy green.  I removed as much of the stag horn as I could, but I can’t get it off the smaller leaf plants. I also bought some seachem Excell today, I haven’t dosed the tank yet though.  I will add a tank picture separately.

 

thanks!!

 

I had a weird cycling issue some time ago. So if water changes are making you nervous, don't forget you can dose Prime up to 5x the dose every 24 hours. That will keep things in check till it cycles. 

[Rhonda]

@Koihere is my tank

[Rhonda]

1 minute ago, Mmiller2001 said:

I had a weird cycling issue some time ago. So if water changes are making you nervous, don't forget you can dose Prime up to 5x the dose every 24 hours. That will keep things in check till it cycles. 

I was going to do that, but it will remove nitrates.  I feel like I’m adding fertilizer just to remove it.  I suppose it’s better to just use it to remove the nitrites.