Golden Longfin White Cloud

[Dancing Matt]

When breeding in tubs do you pull out juveniles after a specific time to allow more spawns from the adults (do juveniles prey on fry?) or do you leave them in for the season?

[WhitecloudDynasty]

On 7/27/2021 at 3:28 PM, Dancing Matt said:

When breeding in tubs do you pull out juveniles after a specific time to allow more spawns from the adults (do juveniles prey on fry?) or do you leave them in for the season?

Yes older fry will eat newborn..every 2 weeks I pull whatever fry that I can catch with the net I use. 

[Dancing Matt]

On 7/28/2021 at 12:59 AM, WhitecloudDynasty said:

Yes older fry will eat newborn..every 2 weeks I pull whatever fry that I can catch with the net I use. 

Can those go in the same tank or do they need to grow to a certain size first? (will 1 month old fish eat 2 week old fry?)

[WhitecloudDynasty]

Update

Still a long way to go

[Dancing Matt]

@WhitecloudDynasty How old are these long-fins?

[WhitecloudDynasty]

On 8/30/2021 at 9:06 PM, Dancing Matt said:

@WhitecloudDynasty How old are these long-fins?

Around 6-9 months..pretty long for their age. 

[WhitecloudDynasty]

These still need alot of work but it's a start.

They aren't long enough and I need to fix their face.

I want a all red fin golden longfin

[Minanora]

I think these are stunning! The top down view looks like a contender for a 'koi' variation! Beautiful. Your project is incredible!

[WhitecloudDynasty]

Showing off the girls 

[Minanora]

Your time and effort are paying off! They're lovely.

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@WhitecloudDynastythey look great. What a difference a couple generations make. How are the males doing? Any updates on your Ruby barb project? 

[WhitecloudDynasty]

On 12/16/2021 at 3:53 PM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

@WhitecloudDynastythey look great. What a difference a couple generations make. How are the males doing? Any updates on your Ruby barb project? 

Here is 1 of the breeding male

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@WhitecloudDynastythey are gorgeous, the colors are getting more intense, I like the red lips!

[WhitecloudDynasty]

Early this year I bred a golden longfin male to longfin green/red female to create their babies(F1)
Their F1 came very useful and when bred back to themselves I got 25% golden longfin. I also use those F1 to cross back to the golden longfin line to widen out their gene pool.

 

Since I have room I'm doing it again but with a different line of longfin. I'm using my red line of longfin white cloud. The last 2 photo are adult longfin bred to some very young golden longfin(6month). This should widen out the gene pool even more also adding the redness into the golden longfin. (Top photo) longfin males from my red line father and son bred to golden longfin females that show sign of redness in their fin.

(Bottom photo) golden longfin male brothers, 1 yellowtips and 1 orangetips, both have a rich red fin and lateral line bred to red longfin females.

This F1 will be genetically far enough from the first set of F1. Now the hard part is keeping track who is who when breed. 

[Minanora]

Truly amazing! They're all so lovely! I feel your frustration with selecting breeding candidates. It's sometimes worse than a game of Russian roulette! Having to wait for months to see the results... So far you're winning. I am in love with your progress. It's a pleasure to read on.

[DennisH]

Signing in here for the first time. I did this same cross about 20 years ago, when the golds were first available. Took a few years as it did for you, but eventually I had hundreds of pure breeding gold longfins. I sold some on Aquabid and also to locals in the fish clubs. I found out a couple of things that might interest you:

• Parents seem to eat the gold babies much faster than the normals. Found this to be true in short fins as well. I got best results in tanks choked with riccia, or else in planted tanks where I pulled the parents out when the first babies were sighted. The normal long fins would allow a significant number of babies to mature with them.
• There are 2 subspecies of white clouds, both were considered extinct in the wild 20 years ago, not sure if more have been found in the wild. The northern strain vanished first, and was replaced in the trade with the southern strain because it tolerated warm water (Florida fish farm ponds) better and also it had white/yellow tipping on the fins. The strains obviously interbreed, but if you find original photos from the wild, you can see that the northern strain had fins that were white or clear close to the body, with bright red toward the tips. The southern strain was the opposite, red near the body with white or yellow edging on the tips. I had both fin color variants in my gold longfins and rather liked that, but the ones that took after the northern strain had much more total red area on their fins and were real shop stoppers.
• My gold longfins seem to have accumulated some of the worse of both (highly inbred) strains. They really liked the unheated tanks in my unheated basement, where the temps varied between 60 and 72. But most everyone else that tried to breed them failed to even keep them alive. My water was also very soft and slightly acidic, maybe they liked that too. All I know is I could raise them by the hundreds, but others often could not. I once had a 55 with lots of live plants (riccia, java moss, java fern). There were easily hundreds in that tank of all sizes, all the time. I would just net out some to take to auctions and you could not tell I had removed any.
• I think some of their descendants might still be out there, I see them advertised on Aquabid every now and then. I really hope they did survive, I liked them.

[WhitecloudDynasty]

On 1/9/2022 at 9:23 AM, DennisH said:

Signing in here for the first time. I did this same cross about 20 years ago, when the golds were first available. Took a few years as it did for you, but eventually I had hundreds of pure breeding gold longfins. I sold some on Aquabid and also to locals in the fish clubs. I found out a couple of things that might interest you:

• Parents seem to eat the gold babies much faster than the normals. Found this to be true in short fins as well. I got best results in tanks choked with riccia, or else in planted tanks where I pulled the parents out when the first babies were sighted. The normal long fins would allow a significant number of babies to mature with them.
• There are 2 subspecies of white clouds, both were considered extinct in the wild 20 years ago, not sure if more have been found in the wild. The northern strain vanished first, and was replaced in the trade with the southern strain because it tolerated warm water (Florida fish farm ponds) better and also it had white/yellow tipping on the fins. The strains obviously interbreed, but if you find original photos from the wild, you can see that the northern strain had fins that were white or clear close to the body, with bright red toward the tips. The southern strain was the opposite, red near the body with white or yellow edging on the tips. I had both fin color variants in my gold longfins and rather liked that, but the ones that took after the northern strain had much more total red area on their fins and were real shop stoppers.
• My gold longfins seem to have accumulated some of the worse of both (highly inbred) strains. They really liked the unheated tanks in my unheated basement, where the temps varied between 60 and 72. But most everyone else that tried to breed them failed to even keep them alive. My water was also very soft and slightly acidic, maybe they liked that too. All I know is I could raise them by the hundreds, but others often could not. I once had a 55 with lots of live plants (riccia, java moss, java fern). There were easily hundreds in that tank of all sizes, all the time. I would just net out some to take to auctions and you could not tell I had removed any.
• I think some of their descendants might still be out there, I see them advertised on Aquabid every now and then. I really hope they did survive, I liked them.

Sweet! Great information, I noticed the parent eating the golden fry more often also. So I stop feeding bbs and it seem to help alot.

 About 10 years ago I was able to pick up a golden longfin line also but they wouldn't breed for me, they just fell apart a few months later, how they look and act I don't remember anymore. 

Mine breeds 100% true, but I'm trying to widen the gene pool now. Mine right now is showing some deformity, that's one reason I haven't offer them out yet. I'm cleaning them up before i put my stamp off approval lol. They are raise on a spring fed well water, so it changes with the seasons. Plus I do 80% water change weekly. Abit overkill but I want to keep them as hardy as possible. 

If you want to start back again let me know. The last batch I have are "OK" to go to breeder. Still need work but whoever gets them just need to clean them up and work with them. Same goes for you @Cory if you have room for a pair or 2, I can send you some when weather warm up. With 2 catch..1st I need them to be culls hard so every fish being handed down is an improvement over the last generation, its for the future of this line. 2nd no publicity...I don't have enough for everyone, and don't plan on breeding also forsale. I want my hobby to stay a hobby lol

[DennisH]

I'm out of the fish hobby for a while. I raise fancy poultry and sell chicks to backyard chicken keepers now.

I found this thread when I was reminiscing and did a search. I hope you can get them to become sturdy fish, it eluded me, but they were among the last fish I got rid of, because I was hoping someone would continue the line. I think they may always be a specialty fish, only for really devoted hobbyists.

I also did about 80% (or more) weekly water changes with soft well water. Perhaps they just have a lower tolerance for toxins than the short fin varieties. Long fin varieties of many fish often seem the most stressed and pathetic looking in the pet stores.

I wish you the best succes possible with these! 

[WhitecloudDynasty]

On 1/9/2022 at 9:03 PM, DennisH said:

I'm out of the fish hobby for a while. I raise fancy poultry and sell chicks to backyard chicken keepers now.

I found this thread when I was reminiscing and did a search. I hope you can get them to become sturdy fish, it eluded me, but they were among the last fish I got rid of, because I was hoping someone would continue the line. I think they may always be a specialty fish, only for really devoted hobbyists.

I also did about 80% (or more) weekly water changes with soft well water. Perhaps they just have a lower tolerance for toxins than the short fin varieties. Long fin varieties of many fish often seem the most stressed and pathetic looking in the pet stores.

I wish you the best succes possible with these! 

Only time will tell

 

I also raise bantam and pigeons.

I'm working on a mutt line for no comb oegb size birds..they breed about 50% true right now

[PineSong]

On 1/9/2022 at 10:02 PM, WhitecloudDynasty said:

Only time will tell

 

I also raise bantam and pigeons.

I'm working on a mutt line for no comb oegb size birds..they breed about 50% true right now

Bantams are my favorites--I hope to have some one day, maybe when I retire. That's a fine looking rooster. 

My favorite thing about my golden white clouds is their grumpy faces. They look like they are frowning and they have smeared lipstick--so cute. The way they swim is also very appealing. Your longfins are beautiful!

[Levi_Aquatics]

Those whiteclouds are stunning!

[DennisH]

On 1/9/2022 at 10:02 PM, WhitecloudDynasty said:

Only time will tell

 

I also raise bantam and pigeons.

I'm working on a mutt line for no comb oegb size birds..they breed about 50% true right now

Those remind me of bantam Cubalayas. You should look into those, they are rare but several breeders keep them. The advantage of a known breed is that the babies are worth more and you have other breeders to work with, the internet makes that much easier. I have a friend on Ohio that keeps Cubalayas (bantam and large fowl) and swears they are the best chickens in the world.

I mostly keep colored egg layers that lay dark brown, blue or dark green eggs. So many first time chicken keepers start up every year and they want a colorful collection of eggs to show off. I also breed for docility and longevity of laying, qualities that large hatcheries don't care about at all. Gives me a niche where I can change more than hatcheries and still make lots of sales, as people quickly figure out the cost of the chicks is just a tiny fraction of the overall cost of keeping chickens, so it makes sense to start with the best.

[WhitecloudDynasty]

On 1/10/2022 at 8:04 AM, DennisH said:

Those remind me of bantam Cubalayas. You should look into those, they are rare but several breeders keep them. The advantage of a known breed is that the babies are worth more and you have other breeders to work with, the internet makes that much easier. I have a friend on Ohio that keeps Cubalayas (bantam and large fowl) and swears they are the best chickens in the world.

I mostly keep colored egg layers that lay dark brown, blue or dark green eggs. So many first time chicken keepers start up every year and they want a colorful collection of eggs to show off. I also breed for docility and longevity of laying, qualities that large hatcheries don't care about at all. Gives me a niche where I can change more than hatcheries and still make lots of sales, as people quickly figure out the cost of the chicks is just a tiny fraction of the overall cost of keeping chickens, so it makes sense to start with the best.

I seen Cubalayas bantam before, not my cup of tea. My goal isn't to make money so I don't really care if my mutt are worth anything. I just enjoy setting goal and trying to reach it. Mine are the size of oegb but a bit taller, working to breed no comb and white legs. None of my hobbies make enough money to pay themselves lol!

[WhitecloudDynasty]

These are my first set that just hit 6 month. Very inbred but with hard culling they turn out better than I thought. 

Some young males I pull back as breeder

And young females

[eatyourpeas]

I bet they are quite beautiful as they display for each other when mating. I am very much enjoying my WCMM, when they stop and display, and keep going. Thanks for the observation on the Riccia. I have some in the tank that seems to like it so will be adding more. 🙂