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Pagoda Snails Journal


Anita
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And the snails are back! 😍

Saturday morning I added another mulberry leaf and a medium grape leaf, and Repashy Super Green made with Drosophila. The mulberry leaves are definitely getting nibbled on—and the amount eaten seems like more than just the guppies and shrimp. 🤞

Saturday evening I added three small Aquatic Arts pellets, which were gone by Sunday. But who knows who ate them. Probably the guppies, haha!😋

Sunday morning, the guppies got flake food. I added a micro-food solution—bee pollen and Mikrobs (microbial inoculant) dissolved in water—using a long "turkey baster" feeder to squirt the micro-food solution just above the gravel. 

I decided to keep the temperature permanently lowered to 76° (two degrees cooler than the initial set up).

These videos were taken on Friday and Saturday. Looking good!

 

Edited by Anita
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2 minutes ago, Koi said:

Not gonna lie, I’ve been trying to figure out the size of your snails this whole time haha. I didn’t think it was that big!

@OceanTruth wondered as well, so I decided to measure them. I have no idea if the larger snail will keep growing or even how old they get, so I guess we will just wait and see if they get even bigger! 😄

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Hello Fellow Pagoda keeper! 🙂  So fun to see your journal.  

We have enjoyed our dear "Shogun" for about a year now.  He is the Coolest.  So worried at one point when we first got him, but I think he was just acclimating and/or being himself (we decided it's a boy 🙂) and he hasn't looked back since.  Needed some work on too much algae in the tank.  Hope we are able to enjoy him for a good while.  

2 Must be double the fun! 

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40 minutes ago, FishMonger said:

Hello Fellow Pagoda keeper! 🙂  So fun to see your journal.  

We have enjoyed our dear "Shogun" for about a year now.  He is the Coolest.  So worried at one point when we first got him, but I think he was just acclimating and/or being himself (we decided it's a boy 🙂) and he hasn't looked back since.  Needed some work on too much algae in the tank.  Hope we are able to enjoy him for a good while.  

2 Must be double the fun! 

Wow, I am thrilled to hear about Shogun! 🐌 Welcome! They are definitely shy critters.

I would love to compare notes. What is your tank set up? What is his favorite food? How big is Shogun? What little information I found indicates these snails are monoecious, having separate male and female genders. But I have no idea how you can identify their gender short of dissection.

At any rate, thanks for visiting! Please share photos and details, if you are able to. 🥰

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On 3/13/2021 at 11:42 PM, Anita said:

Epilogue: How did this happen?

I was thinking the Anubias was showing signs of nutrient deficiency—small pin holes in the leaves. So I did what I always do with my other guppy tanks, I added two squirts of Easy Green one day, two squirts of kelp solution the next day. I do this much for my other two guppy tanks, so I didn't give it a second thought. And then, since I was in plant care mode, I decided to give the Vallisneria some root tabs! At any rate, the under-gravel filter (UGF) probably sucked up the extra nutrients from the root tabs and spit everything into solution, i.e., into the rest of the aquarium. 

du-OH! Like I said, too smart for my own good sometimes. 🤪

 

How often is it that I am awake at night and suddenly put two and two together about a puzzle I was seeing in a tank.  Like your snail not moving.  Then I will get up and do a water change or plug in the heater I unplugged for maintenance and forgot to plug back in.  And my husband is wondering what the heck am I doing?!  Well hopefully enough in the nick of time before the whole thing crashes.  How many Pagodas do you still have?

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14 minutes ago, Lifeisgood said:

How many Pagodas do you still have?

Two of the original three are alive and doing well. 🥰In the latest video, the small snail is on the glass. The large snail is on the gravel. The medium-sized snail did not make it. 

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2 minutes ago, Anita said:

Two of the original three are alive and doing well. 🥰In the latest video, the small snail is on the glass. The large snail is on the gravel. The medium-sized snail did not make it. 

Do you want to breed them?  I did learn how to sex mystery snails but hopefully you still have what you need.  They look really cool.

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41 minutes ago, Lifeisgood said:

Do you want to breed them?  I did learn how to sex mystery snails but hopefully you still have what you need.  They look really cool.

For now, I want them to live for many years! Yes, it would be awesome if they reproduced. What little information available out there about Pagoda Snails is not well referenced, so I have no idea how reliable it is. The consensus seems to be they are monoecious—have separate male and female genders.  

From what I understand about identifying gender in Mystery Snails, you hold them out of the water until they try to escape. As they stretch their bodies out of the shell, you can spot the male reproductive organ. I doubt this method would work with Pagoda Snails. Unlike Mystery Snails, which are fast moving and active during the day, Pagoda Snails are slow moving, timid, and most active at night. During the day, they usually rest on the glass or substrate. When they are active, sudden movements or strong shadows are enough to spook them and they duck inside their shells. I suspect that if held out of the water, the Pagoda Snails will stay tight inside their shells until they expire. So, the last thing I want to do is mess with these shy critters unless I need to. 

Even if the Mystery Snail method worked, there is no guarantee the sexual organs of the Pagoda Snails will even resemble those of Mystery Snails. These gastropods come from two different genera, meaning it would be like comparing a bull to a stallion. As an Animal Science major, I can tell you the reproductive anatomy of these two placental mammals are quite different.

For now, I am happy with keeping them happy! I could be lucky and have one of each. If I have two of the same gender, that's OK too. I agree, they are really cool. :classic_cool:

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Anita, that would be amazing if you were able to breed them.  So I don't have a lot of data for you. I will work on it. 🙂

Sorry, I can get there at times (but the rest of my life fares better when I don't). So generally my data collecting is usually limited to *is there a problem*... (which yes, is often too late for the control data).  

Here's what I can tell you for now.  When "he" first arrived and was acclimating I was freaking out and thought he died.  He was stretched out far from his shell and not moving much.  I thought Oh no - dying already.  I was assured from the seller give it time.  

I am looking up those old emails for more accurate info.  

Here are a few pics from when we first put him in the "QT" tank.  FYI - This tank was freshly-cycled when I put them in, as in it was started, but I am sure putting them in kicked it into full cycle. So I was a bit worried about all the new visitors.  Also, there was pretty much No algae yet, so I fed a couple Algae Wafers.  Some of them took to it, some did not. But I believe he did.  As much as I was worried about him at one point, he actually was faring better than the 3 Kupa Nerite Snails that also arrived. Yes all were shipped, not store bought. So that was another hurdle he had to manage.

The first photo is the one I sent when I got worried about him.  He had been looking good and then all of a sudden he seemed to Freeze in place, looking like he was on his side.  vs. The second photo where he was looking good just in the tank.

image0.jpeg

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From my email it appear I did test the water after he froze and all was fine.  Apparently it also looked like he had eaten.  I think based on my emails and memory, he seemed to have survived the night and looked fine in the morning.  So I figured he must have just sacked out! The next day I put him in our 20Long which was fully cycled, had tons of algae and likely the Cyano I am still fighting with. He took to that tank like a champ and has been Guardian of the Pagodas ever since. 😉 I am not always good on tank maintenance, it comes and goes based on life here.  He did survive some trips we took (while under the care of others - can't say the same for a few others).  

I don't feed him anything.  He gets whatever he can find that either the fish & frogs don't take and plenty of algae and what's left. Generally Daphne or some other flake food, tadpole pellets, and sometimes shrimp and/or bloodworms for treats are all the foods that get put in the tank for the others. He has been an awesome cleaner in spite of our never ending algae. 😜  

Hoping to get that under control soon (but still with enough leftover for him to eat).  So in the event the algae cleans up a lot, I may be in need of food suggestions! 🙂

Hope this all helps.  I will keep an eye and try to measure a bit and give you any more info I can once I do some extra observations.  He is in a quiet room, til evening.  So I can't say about him being shy or not? He doesn't appear to be?

 

IMG_0536.jpg

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25 minutes ago, FishMonger said:

The first photo is the one I sent when I got worried about him.  He had been looking good and then all of a sudden he seemed to Freeze in place, looking like he was on his side.  vs. The second photo where he was looking good just in the tank.

Haha, awesome! Both of my snails do the same thing! It's like they have narcolepsy and fall asleep mid-crawl or mid-chew, often with their bodies just dangling out of their shells. 😂 Like you, I had no idea what was happening the first time I saw this. The snail that didn't make it stayed tucked up deep inside his shell. So I  concluded that they "let it all hang out" when they are relaxed, not stressed or ill. Such goofballs. 😜

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1 minute ago, FishMonger said:

Curious Anita, from your pic and video, how many snails & species do you have?  They all look so cute along with the shrimp climbing over your Pagoda! 🙂

Seems I have become a collector of odd snails! This is my Snail Tank, with the Pagoda Snails being the centerpiece critters. I prefer mixed communities that combine plants, fish, and inverts over inverts-/fish-only communities. Mixed communities make for a healthier tank and cut down on maintenance chores. The tank contains 2 Pagoda Snails, 1 male/3 female Blonde Cobra Guppies, 1 Stenomelania coarctata (with the confusing trade name, Dwarf Rabbit Snail), some Bladder Snails, an occasional Ramshorn Snail (I am trying to eliminate these to reduce the competition for algae), and some mutt Neocaridina Shrimp (mostly red). The plants are Water Sprite, Java Fern, Vallisneria, and Anubias nana 'Petite'

Some future considerations...

I want to increase the plant density to provide more biofilm and bio-filtering. So, I may swap some of the Vallisneria with Ludwigia ovalis because I think stem plants will grow better than rooted plants in the under-gravel filter (UGF) set up. Also, I believe Ludwigia has a (slightly) faster growth rate and (as a stem plant) absorbs more nutrients from the water, both of which translate into increased bio-filtering efficiency. I do not want to remove the Vallisneria because I think the Pagodas are dining on them. I may transplant the Vallisneria into pots so I can feed root tabs without the UGF flushing the nitrates into solution. I would like to get more S. coarctata snails at some point down the road. But I want to make sure the Pagodas are doing well before adding any more tank mates.

I am so glad you found us! Thank you so-o-o much for the photos and info. Please keep sharing Shogun's adventures! 🐌 Perhaps together, we can create an online Pagoda Snail database of real-time experiences! 💖

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🙂 BTW - can't find the info, but I am pretty sure I read somewhere they were NOT asexual a la - no need to worry about them spreading in our tank beyond the one purchase.  Maybe I emailed the seller? Either way, I found out before getting him.  I did not want snail babies. Not sure if they lay eggs or what? My nerites sure do! But Shogun is in a tank with nerites, and I am guessing the eggs I see are still just the same ones (had them prior).

Also, correction, we have had him since June.  So about a good 9 months now. I could be wrong, but I don't think he has grown. Even in my pics he looks pretty much the same size.  I do have some additional info and one other note, I had tried to feed him a cucumber piece early on, but no go.  Maybe he was full from the algae wafer or just was still dealing with the transitions.

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1 hour ago, FishMonger said:

Anita, that would be amazing if you were able to breed them.  So I don't have a lot of data for you. I will work on it. 🙂

Sorry, I can get there at times (but the rest of my life fares better when I don't). So generally my data collecting is usually limited to *is there a problem*... (which yes, is often too late for the control data).  

No worries. Please do not make your life more difficult. I am simply excited to find a successful Pagoda Snail herder! And if you haven't noticed, I am a full-on science geek. 🤓Pre-Veterinary Medicine degree, former genetics laboratory technician, former public health research assistant, currently freelance science/technology writer & editor, new media whiz-kid (well, granny in physical years). 

I am so grateful for your willingness to take the time to post. Whatever you are able to share is valuable and rare information!

12 minutes ago, FishMonger said:

🙂 BTW - can't find the info, but I am pretty sure I read somewhere they were NOT asexual a la - no need to worry about them spreading in our tank beyond the one purchase.  Maybe I emailed the seller? Either way, I found out before getting him.  I did not want snail babies. Not sure if they lay eggs or what? My nerites sure do! But Shogun is in a tank with nerites, and I am guessing the eggs I see are still just the same ones (had them prior).

This snail care guide cites an academic paper that confirms Brotia spp. snails have separate genders, male and female. Also, they are viviparous (live bearers) and use a brood pouch to house juvenile snails for an undetermined amount of time before releasing them into the water.

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Ah the brood pouch/live bearer sounds amazing!  Hope you get lucky and can post pics. 🙂

Also here is some more info, I personally do not have the fast flow going on.  But I haven't seen any issue? Unsure.  I did notice he did not do a lot of moving around yesterday.  Other days he has travel more. More than once he climbed to the edge of a plastic leaf branch and was hanging off the end.  We helped him out/off.  But I am guessing he has done it before, as he did do it again.

...

Also known by the names Porcupine Snails and Horned Armor snails, these freshwater snails hail from Thailand and are truly impressive to behold.  Their unique appearance would make them an attractive component of any aquarium.  They are named for their tiered shells, which feature spikes protruding from their shells in a spiral pattern.  Their appearance and behavior are comparable to Malaysian Trumpet Snails, but Pagoda Snails are considered more attractive and desirable among aquarium enthusiasts.  Their shells are primarily rich brown in color with hints of amber and mahogany.
 
They are known to burrow themselves deep in substrate, but will show themselves frequently if tank conditions are ideal.  They tend to prefer sandy substrate, and they have been known to munch on more delicate live plants such as Riccia, so be warned if you have a planted tank!
 
All of our Pagoda Snails are at least 1 inch long, which is rather large for a freshwater snail.  They also tend to be almost as thick as they are long, giving them a large, bulky appearance.  They are also very useful in keeping tanks clean because they eat algae and rotted plant parts.  They will also eat any kind of food tablets or flakes, as well as vegetables.
 
Pagoda Snails really enjoy fast flowing water and do prefer a dimly lit tank. So be sure that your tank has plenty of water flow to meet this snail's needs.  They are virtually never found in local pet stores, making them a highly unique addition to any aquarium set-up!
 
RECOMMENDED TANK PARAMETERS: 
  • Temperature:  72° - 82° F (22° - 28° C) 
  • pH:  6.8 - 7.5
  • KH:  5 - 30 dKH
  • Minimum tank size:  5 gallons per snail
 
CARE GUIDELINES:
  • Diet:  Other than algae and waste, Pagoda Snails eat invertebrate pellets, flake foods, and cooked vegetables (such as zucchini, kale, spinach, or cucumber).
  • Social behavior:  Peaceful and solitary; will not engage with tankmates.
  • Origin:  Thailand, Myanmar (Burma)
  • Average adult size:  1 - 2+ inches (2.5 - 5+ cm)

 

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