Pagoda Snails Journal

[Anita]

I splurged and purchased Pagoda Snails even though it was difficult finding reliable information about their care. One of the few sources I found, recommended a large tank with a fast water flow, high oxygen levels, and low light levels. This simulates their native habitat, the Thoungyin River in Thailand. That said, I cannot tell if this source has successfully raised the snails or simply posted information gleaned from research. E.g., the photos look like they were taken from different tanks. E.g., the group shot looks like the snails were placed together or even perhaps Photoshop-added. 

Since my tanks are small, a powerhead or current generator seemed like it would cause more problems than solutions. So, I opted for highly oxygenated conditions and put them in the tank with an under-gravel filter (UGF). The UGF flow is powered by 2 air stones running at full volume. I run a split lighting schedule—8a-1p/6p-11p lights on, 1p-6p/11p-8a lights off. The UGF tank is lit by one 30W LED floodlight and one 8-inch red/blue LED grow light strip (that’s very small). It also contains floating water sprite a few inches thick, making for low-light conditions. 

I have had these horned beauties for a week. They are said to be shy and indeed, they usually spend the lighted periods lounging on the substrate. I am building a couple of terra cotta hides so they can hang out in the shade. Occasionally I have seen them moving around on the substrate and glass. I have seen each of them eating at some point. Every morning I find objects—Anubias on lava rock, spruce cones, spring-clip leaf holder—have been pushed around. 

Check out this adorable face! 

 

 

[OceanTruth]

I’ve only seen pictures of these guys. Their shells are so cool! I hesitated getting them, because I couldn’t find much information on them as well. Also, I was thinking, “Do I really need another type of snail?” I think maybe the fast flow recommendations threw me off too. That could be the environment where they are from, but do they really need it?

In any case, hope you learn a lot from keeping them and spread the knowledge.

[H.K.Luterman]

I love that little wrinkly snoot. Really cool looking snail. 

[Anita]

5 hours ago, OceanTruth said:

I’ve only seen pictures of these guys. Their shells are so cool! I hesitated getting them, because I couldn’t find much information on them as well. Also, I was thinking, “Do I really need another type of snail?” I think maybe the fast flow recommendations threw me off too. That could be the environment where they are from, but do they really need it?

I blame @Cory and his experience with the Hillstream Loach for deciding to take the leap. Haha! 😜

5 hours ago, OceanTruth said:

In any case, hope you learn a lot from keeping them and spread the knowledge.

Yes, I will use this journal for that purpose, so we all can learn from my successes, or my mistakes! 🤓 First goal → have them survive for 3 months!

[Anita]

My tank water is always a light shade of green, so perhaps the snails will appreciate the extra organics floating around in the water. At least this water is somewhat closer to what they had in Thailand. I've been to Thailand and those rivers were m-u-r-k-y. And I still ate the fish!!! My boyfriend was appalled. 🤪

[Anita]

I guess some particulars would be useful:

•  Tank: Awaken Half-Moon, 10 gallons empty, approx. 7-8 gallons with substrate, plants, and decorations.
• Temperature: heated to a constant 78°F (i.e., not room temperature).
• Tap water treated with activated carbon (filter on bathroom faucet) and Seachem Prime, my municipality has hard water.
• Water Additives: calcium carbonate (food-grade powder), approximately ¼ tsp/month.
• Water Changes: monthly, gravel vacuum with 33% water change.
• Filtration: Modified under-gravel filter (UGF) powered by two Ziss Never-Clog Air Stones (adjusted for medium bubbles).
• Water Current: minimal water flow, no powerhead or wave generator.
• Air Current: two small USB fans circulate air around the tanks.
• Lighting: no natural/ambient lighting, tank is surrounded by mylar curtains (which also help reflect artificial lighting into the tank).
• Lighting: one 8-inch red/blue LED grow light strip, 9a-12p lights on.
• Lighting: one 30W LED floodlight, split schedule, 8a-1p/6p-11p lights on, 1p-6p/11p-8a lights off.
• Plants: Java Fern, Anubias nana “petite”, Vallisneria, Water Sprite (free-floating).
• Fertilizer: SeaChem Flourish, SeaChem Iron, SeaChem Trace, Easy Green All-in-One, liquid kelp (diluted).
• Substrate: approximately 1 inch deep, pea gravel (Home Depot), crushed coral.
• Decorations: the vendor suggests avoiding decorations with crevices, holes, or branches that might be a death trap for these snails and their bulky, spiny shells. 
• Tank Mates: Blonde Cobra guppies (1 male, 3 females), bladder snails, Neocaridina shrimp.
• Community Macro-Foods: everyone shares meals—Repashy Super Green, Drosophila hydei (larvae/flies, see milk bottle next to tank), Omega One Veggie Kelp Flakes, Omega One Pacific Plankton (dried), Omega One Super Color Flakes, Aquatic Arts sinking pellets, bee pollen, dried leaves (mulberry, grape), butternut squash, frozen brine shrimp, frozen bloodworms, Omega One Super Carnivore (frozen), San Francisco Bay Emerald Entrée (frozen), Glasgarten Mineral Junkie Bites.
• Community Micro-Foods: everyone shares meals—Fritz Zyme 7 Live Bacteria, baker’s yeast, MiKrobs Soil Microbes, Glasgarten Bacter AE, Glasgarten Shrimp Baby Food, spruce cones (biofilm, wood).

Whew, I think that covers it. Let me know if I missed a parameter you are interested in. 🤓

Edited March 9, 2021 by Anita

[OceanTruth]

You’ve got some cool setups! I love how people set up these nano wonderlands.

What kind of cones are behind the dish? I’d love to find cones besides the normal alder cones.

[Anita]

13 minutes ago, OceanTruth said:

You’ve got some cool setups! I love how people set up these nano wonderlands.

What kind of cones are behind the dish? I’d love to find cones besides the normal alder cones.

Thank you. I had a choice between one or two large tanks, or four small ones. I opted for the freedom to build four different habitats. I am greedy that way! I love that descriptor "nano wonderlands." 😍 I am going to borrow it from now on! 

Haha, I just described the spruce cones in @Betsy HS Classroom Tank Journal! I think this link will take you directly to my rationale for using them. Also, I find they do not darken the water, so their tannin level must be on the low side. 

[OceanTruth]

@Anita Yes I just saw your post there. Lol. I’m definitely on the hunt for larger cones like that. Very cool.

[Anita]

Built some terra cotta hides for the snails. I wanted to give the Pagodas a dark hidey-hole and still avoid creating stagnant water. Trying to decide which style to use. 🤔 I am thinking about supergluing moss or plants on top.

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Anita

[OceanTruth]

Very nice! You are quite handy. I’ve tried to drill terra cotta pots before... cracked them all perfectly.

[Anita]

8 minutes ago, OceanTruth said:

Very nice! You are quite handy. I’ve tried to drill terra cotta pots before... cracked them all perfectly.

Why thank you! Yes, I picked up the handyperson gene from my Dad. Haha, I hear you!

BTW, diamond cutters are MUCH easier to use than regular masonry bits. They cut more efficiently so you can use less down pressure; the pots are less likely to crack. Also, I soaked the pots in a bucket for two days before drilling/cutting.

[OceanTruth]

@Anita Thanks for the tip!

[Anita]

@OceanTruth ORD 😆

[Anita]

Photos taken today.

 I am growing concerned about the middle-sized (medium) of the three (this top photo). Hasn't budged in nearly 18 hours, which is not a good sign. 😟

Come on buddy! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The largest of the three. He is OK. They do this a lot, just let their bodies hang outside the shell. Right side up, upside down. It is as if they are narcoleptic and fall asleep mid-crawl. I am willing to bet that by tomorrow morning, he'll have wandered off to another part of the tank. 

"No no he's not dead, he's, he's restin'! Remarkable snail, the Pagoda Snail, idn'it, ay? Beautiful shell!"  

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Anita
Changed caption of first photo, from "smallest" to "middle-sized (medium)."

[OceanTruth]

I hope the little one is ok and he’s just being lazy. I hope they reproduce soon as well, so you have a healthy colony of them. Are they quite active usually? Easy to spot in the tank?

[Anita]

7 hours ago, OceanTruth said:

I hope the little one is ok and he’s just being lazy. I hope they reproduce soon as well, so you have a healthy colony of them. Are they quite active usually? Easy to spot in the tank?

Haha, well if they start reproducing it will certainly prove I found their sweet spot. At this point, I am shooting for the modest of goal of keeping them alive. I noticed that most YouTubers only have one, short video of their Pagoda or Chopstick Snails. On the other hand, you can find dozens of videos on Rabbit, Mystery, Ramshorn, Malaysian Trumpet, etc. Reading between the lines, I suspect this means people are not keeping them alive, much less breeding them.

Also, I made a correction to the photo. The immobile snail is the middle-sized one. The smallest is definitely the most active; it is the one most likely to be active during a lighted period. The largest tends to stay put, not moving until I am not watching (i.e., during a dark period) like the game Red Light, Green Light.

Or like the Dr. Who episode "Blink." 😄 When the lights come on, it is in a new spot.

At any rate, I may have discovered the problem and will share details later. I just wanted to give a quick answer to your questions, which turn out to be indeed relevant (and handy) to my sleuthing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Bit of a hectic morning. After feeding the furballs, I discovered someone had an accident last night. So that needed to be cleaned up. Next came the snail tank. And now, I am off to have breakfast. It is currently 11:30a and I am starving! 🥴

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Anita

[Anita]

Haha, @Daniel appears to have noticed my Monty Python reference. Baby Boomers unite!

Edited March 11, 2021 by Anita

[Anita]

Okey dokey. I have some good news and some bad news to share.

First, the bad news. I am sad to report that the medium-sized snail did not make it. 😢 On Wed, I noticed it had not moved at all for nearly a day. By Fri morning, it was still in the same spot, so I picked it up and checked inside.

As you can see in the photo, operculum has dropped off and the body is rotting inside the shell. You can also see a couple of pond snails feasting on the bounty. I also did a sniff test. Ugh! Yup, putrid snail meat. 😖

Now, what I hope is the good news, although it is highly likely that this poor snail's death is my fault. For a smart person, I can be incredibly DUMB! 

 

 

Hopefully anyone visiting the forum will learn from my mistake. The gorey details...

Back up one day to Thursday morning. I notice the largest snail had also been stuck in one place for more than 12 hours (overnight). As @OceanTruth  wondered, the snails are active during the dark period. Every morning leading up to Wednesday, the snails would be in a different spot from the night before. Hmm, so now I have two snails not moving. That means something. What could it be? Aw nuts, TEST THE WATER ANITA!!!!

YIKES!! What the &*%^)&(*&$#3?<$???!!! 😱

 

Hang on guys. Fresh water is coming! Deep gravel vacuum and 50% water change...

I just finish filling up the aquarium when I notice... A ray of hope!

I also notice the Java Fern is showing what looks like leaf burn, like a houseplant that has been over-fertilized. Aarrgg. I check for other nitrogen sources, aka, green-dead-or-dying plant matter. I pull the Java Fern and trim off a bunch of dead and unhealthy leaves.

 

I remove about 20% of the leaves, then return the Java Fern to the aquarium.

 

I pull out all the Water Sprite and put it into a bucket of aged/treated water.  I skim up the floating dead/loose leaves from the aquarium. I sort through the Water Sprite and return only medium-large, whole plants to the aquarium. 

I turn the temperature down to 75 degrees. 

Continued in the next post....

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Anita

[Anita]

Continued from the previous post.

Friday morning: one day and two 50% water changes later...

 

As mentioned above, I remove the dead snail. I also inspect the largest snail. VERY GENTLY, I push on the operculum with a soft plastic pipette, and it reacts. OK, so still alive. I remove all the food—squash, mulberry leaves, and grape leaves. I pull out the food dish, wash it, and return the empty dish into the tank. No one gets fed today.

 

Friday evening, one more 50% water change...

 

I also test for ammonia. 

 

I add one small mulberry leaf and place the small snail, who has been the most active, in the dish. About 30 minutes later I noticed this (see below). So, I place the large snail on the food dish too. No other food. The guppies are not happy. 

Today, Saturday morning. No water change since last night...

Both snails have moved off the dish during the night and are resting on the gravel. I feed a small pinch of flake food. The guppies are ecstatic! I add one Glasgarten Mineral Junkie pellet to the food dish. 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Anita

[OceanTruth]

Sorry to hear about the snail loss. That really does suck. Sounds like you had a busy couple of days getting the tank back in order.

Isn’t it weird how testing water is almost the last thing we think of?

I like the gif of the shrimp and Pagoda side by side. These snails are quite large or at least larger than I was picturing them. Their shell is so gosh darn cool too. It’s like a horned nerite and a malaysian trumpet had a giant baby or something. Lol.

[Anita]

Saturday evening (5 minutes ago). The snails are moving around the tank again. Hopefully, Snail Armageddon has been averted. 🥴

[OceanTruth]

Nice job on stopping snailageddon!

[Anita]

4 minutes ago, OceanTruth said:

Sorry to hear about the snail loss. That really does suck. Sounds like you had a busy couple of days getting the tank back in order.

Isn’t it weird how testing water is almost the last thing we think of?

I like the gif of the shrimp and Pagoda side by side. These snails are quite large or at least larger than I was picturing them. Their shell is so gosh darn cool too. It’s like a horned nerite and a malaysian trumpet had a giant baby or something. Lol.

Right? The odd thing was that the shrimp and guppies were fine. During the nitrate spike, all the teeny baby shrimp were swimming around without a care in the world. Sheesh!

Ah, very busy indeed. And I get to carry water up from and down to the basement in buckets. Thankfully, it is only a 10-gal aquarium! 

I was also surprised when I got them. Yes, they are big! Like a Mystery Snail crossed with saltwater Conch, haha! 😜Although, that shrimp in the GIF is quite small, probably less the 0.75 inch long. The guppies are young too, so only about an inch. 

I just hope I haven't permanently injured them. At least my water has a high pH and is quite hard. I believe that gives me a bit more wiggle room with nitrogen toxicity, than low pH/soft water. 

[Anita]

Epilogue: How did this happen?

I was thinking the Anubias was showing signs of nutrient deficiency—small pin holes in the leaves. So I did what I always do with my other guppy tanks, I added two squirts of Easy Green one day, two squirts of kelp solution the next day. I do this much for my other two guppy tanks, so I didn't give it a second thought. And then, since I was in plant care mode, I decided to give the Vallisneria some root tabs! At any rate, the under-gravel filter (UGF) probably sucked up the extra nutrients from the root tabs and spit everything into solution, i.e., into the rest of the aquarium. 

du-OH! Like I said, too smart for my own good sometimes. 🤪

 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Anita