New leaves growing in damaged

[Ugan66265]

         Start 20 gallon
•Cryptocoryne Wendtii Red
•Red Root Floater
•Red Rubin Sword
•Anubias (a few different kinds)
•Red melon sword

          Added upgrading to 29 gallon
•Sagittaria Platyphylla
•Tiger Lotus
•Java Fern Narrow Leaf
•Water Sprite Lace Leaf Fern
•Aponogeton Ulvaceus
•Sagittaria Subulata 'Dwarf
•Fissidens Nobilis moss

   Started 20 gallon tank 9/10/20. Stock: 1 Betta, 14 neon tetras, 6 cory catfish. One tetra passed away a couple days of owning. Tank was treated with fritz maracyn and fritz paracleanse. Water tested with tetra strips both 6 in 1 and ammonia. My reasons were: 20 ppm nitrate, 0 nitrite, hard water, 0 chlorine, zero alkalinity, 6.8-7 ph, and 0 ammonia. These readings continue to be consistent for the life of the 20 gallon tank. Water temp stays between 76-80°F. Weekly water changes 25-50% depending on how long it took to gravel vac. Water always treated with topfin water conditioner.
     I converted tank over to a planted tank 10/15/20. I used fluval stratum for substrate. Plants listed above. Tank, heater, filter, and light were a topfin kit from petsmart. No fertilizers used at first. The light seemed to be too bright so I covered sections of the light with tape.
     I got into this hobby practically  over night. So I obviously had never even heard of "cycling" a planted aquarium. By the time I came across this it was to late. I was already in this adventure and there was no turning back. So moving on.
     Half way through November there was diatom algae growing all over. It slowly took over the aquarium by the end of the month. I added 2 mystery snails, and a nerite snail early November when I first seen the algae start. I found a pond snail on my plants when I recieved them. Scared from stories of them overtaking an aquarium I chose not to add him to the tank. The kid ended up caring for it in a Mason jar. I then started noticing miniature ram horn snails popping up ever couple of days. I don't like the way they look in the tank so I remove them when I see them and will now continue to do so for eternity it seems. Early December (possibly late Nov.)sick of the ugly diatom, a little more knowing of pond snails, and some peer pressure from an 8 year old, the pond snail (donkey) was added to the tank.
     December I noticed my plants leaves were deteriorating. They had random small holes on the older leaves and the new leaves growing looked as if something was eating them. Plants effected were crypt, and the melon sword. Two weeks later and the Rubin then showed symptoms. Frantic research had me under the impression that the plants were lacking nutrients.
     12/4/20 I started dosing aquarium co-op easy green. I followed instructions and dosed weekly. I was reading the same water conditions as I have been. Did not see an increase in nitrates. I recorded the day's I used ferts so I could follow a good schedule and look back on it. Also that day I placed 3 aquarium co-op root tabs. This would have been the only time I use the tabs. One near each plant crypt, Rubin, and the melon. I did this because I didn't know any better. Lol. The research I was doing was misunderstood and I was under the impression that the plants were lacking nutrients and that's why the leaves were getting holes. Moving past another ignorant moment of mine. Lol Plants did seem to grow slightly faster and new leaves had more red in them, but overall this seemed to not help with the holes/bites.
     Well what's next? Lights? My light was poor quality and could possibly be causing these issues. Well so I thought. Also this diatom has got to go. So my thought on that was that maybe the diatom was using up the nutrients before the plants could get to them? Maybe my tank was over stocked? Read that every inch of fish should be a gallon. Sounds legit I guess. My fish seem to be happy and enjoying there home. Betta was recovering from fin rot and was showing a personality and I seriously didn't even know fish were like this! So I have a few ideas of what could be causing this issue. Now how to move forward. Constantly making changes had to be stressing the fish out. I lost another tetra one morning early December. I'm sure this was a factor. My plan was to make all the changes at once and just leave the tank alone!
     1/8/21 I moved everything over to a 29 gallon tank. Shark ADV filter. Air stone. Fluval stratum substrate. Added new plants. No longer have the red floaters. Fluval 3.0 light set at 25% 12 hours with a gap halfway through the day the lights turn off. I am not planning on feeding the diatom with ferts this time so I won't be adding any until I see evidence the plants need them. I did add a few root tabs around the areas I planted, but nothing since. Took about 3 days before plants showed signs of growth. My ulvaceus blew up! It's a big plant lol not what I expected but I love it and so do my fish! Everything else was growing at a normal rate and the new leaves looked amazing! Growing in full with no damage! The leaves from my melon and Rubin sword have been growing in a beautiful red. Diatom, green algae, and any other algae like thing pops up every few days and then disappears within the day. Fish are loving the tank and are showing even more personality then before. They also seem to enjoy feeding time more than they did. I feed them a good variety of foods. Extreme aquatic foods algae wafers, betta pellets, krill flakes, nano pellets, brine shrimp, and blood worms. I feed once daily.
     2-26-21 I notice a new leaf growing in on the crypt is now showing the same odd symptoms again. It looks just like something has been munching on it. 3/1/21 My melon sword is now showing signs of damage new leaves. Since I've started the 29 gallon my water would read: 20 nitrates, 0 nitrites, very hard water, 0 chlorine, 40 alkalinity, 6.8-7 ph, and 0 ammonia. I use city tap water in a state surrounding the great lakes. Well I wrote a book hoping to provide as much info as I could. Please help lol Anyone with experience have any thoughts? Am I moving in the right direction? This all started because I fell in love with my betta that I had in a gallon tank for over a year. I wanted to give him the life he deserved and now it's a thing. Im really enjoying this!

[Toobit67]

Whoah

[Hobbit]

Hmmm. Can you post some pictures? If you had snails or a pleco I’d say they’d been munching, but no one in your tank is a likely leaf-eater.

[Ugan66265]

Yea I apologize for the ridiculously long story. There's just so many variables that could play a role. I wanted to throw it all on the table to hopefully answer any questions. Here are some photos. I did not know how to link images to a URL. Thank you. 

[Ugan66265]

11 hours ago, Toobit67 said:

Whoah

Yea that was probably overkill.

[Toobit67]

18 minutes ago, Ugan66265 said:

Yea that was probably overkill.

No biggie, man.... lol... You dropped an info-bomb... but at least it's out there)

[Ugan66265]

12 minutes ago, Toobit67 said:

No biggie, man.... lol... You dropped an info-bomb... but at least it's out there)

I read a lot of forum posts and I know how long they can drag out if OP was lacking info. I didn't have to be so thorough but at least the info is there. Also kinda hoping for any advice on how I've been doing. It's all new to me and I'm open to learn. 

[Hobbit]

Oh you do have snails!! Sorry, I was skimming late last night and missed that. 😝

You have definitely dived into this hobby head first, and from what I can see you’re doing great! It’s a constant adjustment game until you find what works for you. The plants look really healthy. I’m not familiar with all of the kinds of plants you have but it looks like their leaves are twisting a bit—if that’s not a normal growth pattern for that plant, it could mean you’re low on calcium. Other than that everything looks GREAT to me!

As far as the holes in the leaves, I’d bet money your snail are the culprit. Now that they’ve run out of algae to eat, they have to go for the live plants. It’s not their favorite food but they’ll eat it in a pinch. New growth is usually the most tender and easiest to eat, as well as any weak spots on the plant (for instance, a spot from a minor potassium deficiency).

If you take out a snail or two, or give them some slow feeding food like little blocks of Repashy gel, you’ll probably see less leaf damage.

[Ugan66265]

20 minutes ago, Hobbit said:

Oh you do have snails!! Sorry, I was skimming late last night and missed that. 😝

You have definitely dived into this hobby head first, and from what I can see you’re doing great! It’s a constant adjustment game until you find what works for you. The plants look really healthy. I’m not familiar with all of the kinds of plants you have but it looks like their leaves are twisting a bit—if that’s not a normal growth pattern for that plant, it could mean you’re low on calcium. Other than that everything looks GREAT to me!

As far as the holes in the leaves, I’d bet money your snail are the culprit. Now that they’ve run out of algae to eat, they have to go for the live plants. It’s not their favorite food but they’ll eat it in a pinch. New growth is usually the most tender and easiest to eat, as well as any weak spots on the plant (for instance, a spot from a minor potassium deficiency).

If you take out a snail or two, or give them some slow feeding food like little blocks of Repashy gel, you’ll probably see less leaf damage.

     Thank you! Yea I have a habit of going all in or not at. It's a blessing and a curse. Are you looking at the Ulvaceus (the green canopy shadowing the tank) and the cryptocoryne ( full red leaves that have holes)  that have curling leaves? I know Ulvaceus is like that and i love it. I believe the crypts are that way as well if i am correct. 

     It definitely looks like a culprit is eating the plants. It only seems to happen to the more fragile plants. My anubias plants showed no signs of damage even at its worst in the 20 gallon. Everything I've read told me that the fish and snails i have don't eat plants typically. When i had everything in the 20 gallon there was a great amount of brown diatom algae they could have eaten. Maybe they don't enjoy eating that? I spend a lot of time in front of my tank and i don't ever see my mystery's and nerite eat the plants. They are gentle to the leaves and I've only seen then eat dieing plants or all the mess that comes off my water Sprite...now the pond snails. Part of me like them bc they are good at their job....but I hate how many have spawned! I've got to be on my 6-7th generation all from 1 snail. Could the babies be eating them? This is a broken record question, but is there any way to control the amount of pond snails? I do remove any eggs if i see them. It's a full time job trying to control the population. At least the miniature ram horns maintain out of sign majority of the time. I have not added any ferts since i started the 29 gallon. Should I be dosing weekly or let it continue as is? Thank you for the encouragement! I've definitely been learning a ton for the 5-6 months I've been doing this. 

[Hobbit]

27 minutes ago, Ugan66265 said:

I know Ulvaceus is like that and i love it. I believe the crypts are that way as well if i am correct. 

Sounds good!

27 minutes ago, Ugan66265 said:

It only seems to happen to the more fragile plants.

That seems consistent with snail munching.

27 minutes ago, Ugan66265 said:

When i had everything in the 20 gallon there was a great amount of brown diatom algae they could have eaten. Maybe they don't enjoy eating that?

From your description of what was happening in the 20 gallon, I think your plants were having nutrient issues, just as you thought. Snails will happily munch holes in plants wherever the leaves are weak, even if they have algae to munch on. Variety is the spice of life, even for a snail! Then again, it’s true that not all algae is equal to snails (and other algae eaters). It could be they didn’t like your algae, but my guess is that they were taking advantage of the nutrient deficient leaves.

Keep in mind that plants won’t heal holes in their leaves the way we’d heal a cut on our skin. Plants have methods of sealing off the damaged area, but other than that their main strategy is to just grow a new leaf instead of spend energy on repairs. So if you were just watching old holes when you started dosing ferts, that’s why you may not have thought there was any improvement.

27 minutes ago, Ugan66265 said:

now the pond snails. Part of me like them bc they are good at their job....but I hate how many have spawned! I've got to be on my 6-7th generation all from 1 snail. Could the babies be eating them?

I’m not sure a baby snail could eat a healthy leaf, but if there was already a cut maybe they could expand it. Not sure on this one.

27 minutes ago, Ugan66265 said:

This is a broken record question, but is there any way to control the amount of pond snails?

There are a few fish that will eat snails, but most of them either require a lot of space (like loaches) or don’t play nice with other fish (like pea puffers). Assassin snails will go after your nerite and mystery snail as well as the others, so that’s no good. Some people say cory catfish will eat snails, while others report no luck. I’ve heard of people smashing snails on the side of the glass so their betta can munch the meat.

Another option is to add a slice of veggie like zucchini to the tank, wait for all the snails to pile on top of it, and then remove it. You won’t get all the snails of course, but it’s way faster and easier than picking eggs off of leaves!

Overall, your tank is doing really well. If I were you, I wouldn’t worry too much about the holes in the leaves and the pond snails. While they’re a little unsightly, it’s SOOO much work to get a “perfect” tank. Do your best to mitigate the cause but don’t worry if a hole or two appears now and again. Having a few holey leaves adds to the natural look. 😉 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Hobbit

[Ugan66265]

17 hours ago, Hobbit said:

Another option is to add a slice of veggie like zucchini to the tank, wait for all the snails to pile on top of it, and then remove it.

🤔 yes.....excellent lol

[Ugan66265]

17 hours ago, Hobbit said:

Having a few holey leaves adds to the natural look. 😉 

Thank you for your encouragement and I'm grateful you spent the time to help!!! You are the goat 

[Ugan66265]

17 hours ago, Hobbit said:

Some people say cory catfish will eat snails, while others report no luck.

I've heard this as well. I have 6 currently and they are so peaceful and calm! They're great. No luck with them eating the snails unfortunately lol looks like they're hear to stay. 

[Hobbit]

You’re very welcome! Always happy to meet and help out another fish person.

[Koi]

On 3/6/2021 at 9:09 AM, Ugan66265 said:

I read a lot of forum posts and I know how long they can drag out if OP was lacking info. I didn't have to be so thorough but at least the info is there.

Honestly I think this is how all people should layout their questions if they are having problems. It makes it a lot easier to rule certain issues out and sometimes while writing out your process you'll start to see what you might be doing wrong. Sort of like thinking out loud.

Seems like you gotten help and are in the process of trying to fix your problem so no need for me to chime in. But I wanted to let you know the more information you give the better. I see a lot of posts that could be answered in few days get dragged out for weeks and it feels like pulling teeth when having to run down the list of common questions. Don't be afraid to give the full picture and hopefully you figure out whats going on!

[Ugan66265]

43 minutes ago, Koi said:

Honestly I think this is how all people should layout their questions if they are having problems. It makes it a lot easier to rule certain issues out and sometimes while writing out your process you'll start to see what you might be doing wrong. Sort of like thinking out loud.

Seems like you gotten help and are in the process of trying to fix your problem so no need for me to chime in. But I wanted to let you know the more information you give the better. I see a lot of posts that could be answered in few days get dragged out for weeks and it feels like pulling teeth when having to run down the list of common questions. Don't be afraid to give the full picture and hopefully you figure out whats going on!

Agree. I've been following mechanic forums for years and man is it frustrating when you have to ping back and forth just to get the whole story. Thank you for making a note on that lol I'm glad my efforts of writing this up were beneficial. 

[Brandy]

I think all this advice is great, but just to rule out anything wacky, I would take a flashlight to your tank late at night, at a couple different times. See if you can catch the eating creature. Just in case you have another player sneakily hiding by day. It is an old gardening trick.

[Ugan66265]

16 minutes ago, Brandy said:

I think all this advice is great, but just to rule out anything wacky, I would take a flashlight to your tank late at night, at a couple different times. See if you can catch the eating creature. Just in case you have another player sneakily hiding by day. It is an old gardening trick.

I will definitely do so. It wouldn't surprise me if that is the case. Just part of creating a live environment. Ugh that would not be cool though lol