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Ammonia in tap - Python water change question


Cody000125
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Hi All,

I have 1-2ppm ammonia in my tap water and I use the python for my water changes so the water goes directly in my tank. As it's going in I add seachem prime right away, will the ammonia still harm the fish, or will prime lock up the ammonia before? I've never had any issues with ammonia spikes and the parameters are always good later in the day or the following day. I'm just wondering if that 1-2ppm of ammonia could stress the fish out before prime locks it up and it's processed by the filter. If anyone else has ammonia in their tap water, what do you do for your water changes? And if anyone has any suggestions that would be great, thank you!

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API puts out a product called ammo lock. It doesnt remove ammonia but temporarily binds to it making it harmless for about 24 hours as i recall. Thus giving your bacteria a “safer” window of time to start working on the ammonia in converting it to nitrite and then nitrate. Im sure there are better ways to go about it, thats just what i have used before. It should be noted that ammonia tests will still register the temporarily bound ammonia as it is still ammonia, just bound into a state that shouldnt harm your fish. 

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I think some of your questions might be answered in the FAQ on the Seachem Prime product page.

https://www.seachem.com/prime.php

I also use the Python system and generally add the Prime before I add new water, however ammonia has never been a problem but then again I might be able to credit that to my Siporax, sintered glass biological filter media in the filter, and the beneficial bacteria colony filter that is established in the layer of highly porous lava rock in my substrate, as well as plant biomass. After refilling the tank I also add Seachem Stability, and due to my fish and shrimp selection Brightwell Aquatics Blackwater Clear Planted/Shrimp.

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From the Seachem Prime web page:

"How long does Prime® stay bound to the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates?

A: Prime® will bind up those compounds for up to 48 hours. If they are still present after that time frame, they are released back into the water, unless Prime® is re-dosed accordingly. Also, if your ammonia or nitrite levels are increasing within a 24-hour period, Prime® can be re-dosed every 48 hours."

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22 minutes ago, Jungle Fan said:

I think some of your questions might be answered in the FAQ on the Seachem Prime product page.

https://www.seachem.com/prime.php

I also use the Python system and generally add the Prime before I add new water, however ammonia has never been a problem but then again I might be able to credit that to my Siporax, sintered glass biological filter media in the filter, and the beneficial bacteria colony filter that is established in the layer of highly porous lava rock in my substrate, as well as plant biomass. After refilling the tank I also add Seachem Stability, and due to my fish and shrimp selection Brightwell Aquatics Blackwater Clear Planted/Shrimp.

I guess I'm not having an ammonia problem per say but I was curious if that 1-2ppm ammonia could hurt my fish before prime is bound to it.  

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@Cody000125 Are you sure that your water source has ammonia? 

I highly suggest looking up your municipalities water source (If your in the US) Chloramine is a popular additive that is really a fish killer, Prime and Seachem safe work well, Chloramine is chlorine bound to ammonia, so a liquid API test kit will show ammonia when chloramine is present. When using a dechlorinator, make sure you use one that binds to both ammonia and chlorine/chloramine, this way when the chloramine is neutralized, the byproduct (ammonia) is also neutralized. Seachem Prime is great for this. When Chloramine is neutralized and the ammonia is also neutralized the byproduct will be Ammonium, which will still read as ammonia with your API liquid test kit however is non toxic. 

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1 minute ago, GardenStateGoldfish said:

@Cody000125 Are you sure that your water source has ammonia? 

I highly suggest looking up your municipalities water source (If your in the US) Chloramine is a popular additive that is really a fish killer, Prime and Seachem safe work well, Chloramine is chlorine bound to ammonia, so a liquid API test kit will show ammonia when chloramine is present. When using a dechlorinator, make sure you use one that binds to both ammonia and chlorine/chloramine, this way when the chloramine is neutralized, the byproduct (ammonia) is also neutralized. Seachem Prime is great for this. When Chloramine is neutralized and the ammonia is also neutralized the byproduct will be Ammonium, which will still read as ammonia with your API liquid test kit however is non toxic. 

Yes, it reads 1-2ppm with the API master test kit. And I do use prime as my decholinator, but I wasn't sure if when adding my tap water to the tank is it possible that it could hurt my fish before the prime binds to the chloramine/ammonia? I add my prime right when I start filling my tank back up.

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4 minutes ago, Cody000125 said:

Yes, it reads 1-2ppm with the API master test kit. And I do use prime as my decholinator, but I wasn't sure if when adding my tap water to the tank is it possible that it could hurt my fish before the prime binds to the chloramine/ammonia? I add my prime right when I start filling my tank back up.

You will be fine as long as you add it in during the water change. The API master test kit will show chloramine when using the ammonia test, thats what I was trying to say but I am not a good writer haha. 

depending on how much chloramine is in your tap, you may want to double or triple dose prime when doing the water changes, especially after storms. I have high chloramine in my water and sometimes have noticed extreme distress during water changes after storms since they add extra, I double dose seachem safe with each wc, after storms I triple dose. 

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Cody000125, as GardenStateGoldfish indicated you should get yourself a print out of your water district's water quality report that will indicate the levels of everything within your tap water. My water district has this available for my area on line for download, and most do today. The only thing my water district did not list was TDS and I got myself a meter for that and I test my water every few months, and also check my TDS meter by getting a reading from distilled water in comparison.

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7 minutes ago, GardenStateGoldfish said:

You will be fine as long as you add it in during the water change. The API master test kit will show chloramine when using the ammonia test, thats what I was trying to say but I am not a good writer haha. 

depending on how much chloramine is in your tap, you may want to double or triple dose prime when doing the water changes, especially after storms. I have high chloramine in my water and sometimes have noticed extreme distress during water changes after storms since they add extra, I double dose seachem safe with each wc, after storms I triple dose. 

 

5 minutes ago, Jungle Fan said:

Cody000125, as GardenStateGoldfish indicated you should get yourself a print out of your water district's water quality report that will indicate the levels of everything within your tap water. My water district has this available for my area on line for download, and most do today. The only thing my water district did not list was TDS and I got myself a meter for that and I test my water every few months, and also check my TDS meter by getting a reading from distilled water in comparison.

That makes sense, I've always just been double dosing prime but I will check the water quality report and check! Thank you!

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I have 1.0ppm of Ammonia in my tap and also add it directly with a python. 

One thing to remember is that isn't all harmful ammonia. It's TAN which is total ammonia Nitrogen which is NH3 and NH4. The seachem dot test only reads NH3 is more harmful. 

An established aquarium will handle the 1 or 2 ppm of tan by itself pretty quickly but I still use Prime or Fritz ACCR with every water change and have had no issues. 

There is also a online calculator where you enter your TAN reading, water temp, and PH and it tells you how much NH3 you have in your water.

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19 hours ago, GardenStateGoldfish said:

@Cody000125 Are you sure that your water source has ammonia? 

I highly suggest looking up your municipalities water source (If your in the US) Chloramine is a popular additive that is really a fish killer, Prime and Seachem safe work well, Chloramine is chlorine bound to ammonia, so a liquid API test kit will show ammonia when chloramine is present. When using a dechlorinator, make sure you use one that binds to both ammonia and chlorine/chloramine, this way when the chloramine is neutralized, the byproduct (ammonia) is also neutralized. Seachem Prime is great for this. When Chloramine is neutralized and the ammonia is also neutralized the byproduct will be Ammonium, which will still read as ammonia with your API liquid test kit however is non toxic. 

I am so happy to read this because my tank has had 4.0 ppm+ ammonia the entire time I have had it (4 mths); however, all other levels are fine. (Tap water alone registers 2.0 ppm.) My fish are thriving and reproducing (livebearers). I test with the Master API kit. My city's water report says they use Chloramine year round except for late March to mid-April when they switch to chlorine. I treat all tap water with Prime prior to adding it when performing water changes.  I may begin to triple dose based on what I am reading here.  Thank you!

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21 hours ago, GardenStateGoldfish said:

You will be fine as long as you add it in during the water change. The API master test kit will show chloramine when using the ammonia test, thats what I was trying to say but I am not a good writer haha. 

depending on how much chloramine is in your tap, you may want to double or triple dose prime when doing the water changes, especially after storms. I have high chloramine in my water and sometimes have noticed extreme distress during water changes after storms since they add extra, I double dose seachem safe with each wc, after storms I triple dose. 

 

21 hours ago, Jungle Fan said:

Cody000125, as GardenStateGoldfish indicated you should get yourself a print out of your water district's water quality report that will indicate the levels of everything within your tap water. My water district has this available for my area on line for download, and most do today. The only thing my water district did not list was TDS and I got myself a meter for that and I test my water every few months, and also check my TDS meter by getting a reading from distilled water in comparison.

So I ended up calling today, they said that it ranges from 0.3-3.0 and can go up to 4.0. When I first started my fish keeping journey it was 4.0. What would you suggest to dose for prime? Should I always check my ammonia before a water change to get the dosage or should I just do a x3 or x4 dose? What happens if you don't does enough prime for the ppm of chloramine? I assume the chlorine will gas out eventually but could it harm the fish?

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Your tank always tests 4.0ppm with an API test kit? Even with what I said earlier you should really never show Ammonia in your tank. Even though at certain PH it's not as harmful as people believe but you can't go wrong if you have none.

Primer, safe, ACCR I believe all say one dosage per containers instructions will handle 1 ppm of Ammonia and you can dose up to 5x the regular dosage every 24-48 hours. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. 

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1 minute ago, Medkow74 said:

Your tank always tests 4.0ppm with an API test kit? Even with what I said earlier you should really never show Ammonia in your tank. Even though at certain PH it's not as harmful as people believe but you can't go wrong if you have none.

Primer, safe, ACCR I believe all say one dosage per containers instructions will handle 1 ppm of Ammonia and you can dose up to 5x the regular dosage every 24-48 hours. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. 

No, my tap water had tested 4.0 ppm ammonia, after it's put in the tank my filters handle the ammonia fine even if it's 4ppm ammonia. Lately it's been anywhere from 1-2ppm from the tap. A day later or even later that day it always reads 0. What I was wondering is that if the chloramine is high enough, like 4ppm and there isn't enough prime to bind to all of it could the chlorine harm the fish. And I got an update from seachem themselves, apparently 1 dose of prime is enough to cover 4ppm of chloramine.

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2 hours ago, Cody000125 said:

No, my tap water had tested 4.0 ppm ammonia, after it's put in the tank my filters handle the ammonia fine even if it's 4ppm ammonia. Lately it's been anywhere from 1-2ppm from the tap. A day later or even later that day it always reads 0. What I was wondering is that if the chloramine is high enough, like 4ppm and there isn't enough prime to bind to all of it could the chlorine harm the fish. And I got an update from seachem themselves, apparently 1 dose of prime is enough to cover 4ppm of chloramine.

Okay, sorry I misunderstood.  Thanks for checking with Seachem, that's good to know.

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On 2/22/2021 at 3:48 PM, Cody000125 said:

 

So I ended up calling today, they said that it ranges from 0.3-3.0 and can go up to 4.0. When I first started my fish keeping journey it was 4.0. What would you suggest to dose for prime? Should I always check my ammonia before a water change to get the dosage or should I just do a x3 or x4 dose? What happens if you don't does enough prime for the ppm of chloramine? I assume the chlorine will gas out eventually but could it harm the fish?

Prime is incredible effective at removing chloramine, however it will not gas out for about three months, that is why municipals use it. Double does should be fine, I do triple after storms because I notice my water source has even more chloramines at that time. 

What will happen to your fish if you do not dose enough? Same thing that happens to your eyes when you open them in a chlorinated pool, they burn. if the chloramine level is to high they will die, if its annoying enough for them they will also try and jump out. That is what happened to my prized goldfish, it jumped out and I had no idea why until others started doing it, took me a long time to find out chloramine was the culprit, long story short. Lost my rare wet pets. 

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