Jungle Fan Posted March 17, 2022 Author Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) @anewbiewhen I measure the height of the tank it comes out to just above 20" when you consider the tank sits in a frame that has it ride high, and the water level is not up to the brim either. I stated that the Kasselmann book states max. length of 11.81 inches, that however the real length of my Red Flame's leaves currently are 13 - 15 inches not considering the stem as measured with a tape measure. My substrate level is 2.5 inches and there is an increase from front to back to create the illusion of the tank being deeper than it is in an around 20" tall glass tank that isn't filled to the brim so the water level is at around 19", the leaves that aren't standing straight up but curve somewhat are still reaching the water surface now, and by next week I'll probably have to remove some again because they will protrude again over the water surface, and I use a glass top on this tank to minimize evaporation. My original point for posting this was to illustrate for you not to get hung up on book stats some, plants, fish, or shrimp will exceed what any author will have determined as norm, others will be well below their data. Many factors decide plant growth, water quality, fertilization, genetics, light. There are some really tall people, then again there are some who are shorter than the "norm". My standard for the evaluation of a plant is not how tall, or small a plant is but how healthy it is. Sure, if I buy a plant to be in the background I usually want it to be tall, but if it isn't I'm just as happy to relocate it to another place in the tank as long as it is healthy. I hope this helps you visualize what I'm talking about. For illustration I had also already attached the photo that showed the Red Flame where you can see that it is already back to being just below the surface, which is 1 inch from the top of the frame. Edited March 17, 2022 by Jungle Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewbie Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 I understand - was just trying to picture it. As I noted earlier mine is much smaller and i wonder why that is the case - given that other sword plants I have are extremely large. The red streak in the leaves are similar to your. I think the plant i have is actually an Ozelot which is smaller but looks similar to what you are calling a red flame in that it is a green leaf with red streaks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jungle Fan Posted March 17, 2022 Author Share Posted March 17, 2022 @anewbie as you can see hardly filled only to the half of the tank but at the very least to the beginning of the black trim on the top. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jungle Fan Posted March 17, 2022 Author Share Posted March 17, 2022 @anewbie I have a friend in Germany who grows swordplants for a living, he actually talked to the guy who first bred the Ozelot varieties in former East Germany, and he told him that he developed the Red Flame out of his darker red Ozelot plants. Ozelot Green, Ozelot Red, and Red Flame were a progression of breeding, that's why you sometimes also end up having lighter looking individual plants because they are genetic throwbacks, the major distinction is the redness of the young leaves, and the intensity of the spotted pattern which is much more pronounced in the Red Flame. The original grower also experimented with trying to breed dwarf forms. Another thing I learnt from my friend is that just like with my shrimp you can have genetic throwbacks sometimes when buying plants, so through the years I've seen plants stay 12" that according to books should be capable of reaching lengths up to a yard, and others that were supposed to be 6" max. be a foot and a half. I use books for identifying plant leaf shape, water, temperature, light level, soil, and nutrient preferences, and for general norm of placement but height of growth I am extremely skeptical because I've seen so much variety over the years , I had one Red Flame several years ago in a discus tank that was extremely red and very beautiful but it never got past 7 inches, yet it provided a beautiful focal point surrounded and offset by some nice green medium sized swords, and much bigger Echinodorus bleheri in the back, it looked great with the exposed wood, and wild discus, 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewbie Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 This is mine- this is a new leaf as the leaf ages a lot of the red is loss but at a young stage it is quite a lot of red - there is a lot of glare so not a great picture: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jungle Fan Posted March 17, 2022 Author Share Posted March 17, 2022 Looks just like the young leaves on my Red Flame, they usually lose most of the red as they age but the pattern stays as the leaves grow. It looks like a very nice and healthy plant. The young Ozelot leaves are much greener and don't change all too much in the adult plant. By the way the glare can be controlled by angling the camera lens to the glass of the aquarium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Duck Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) I’ve had red flames get to lots of different sizes depending on tank, placement in the tank, etc. I just pulled a red flame out of my 6 G cube that had nearly taken over. I was hoping it would stay on the shorter end in this fairly shallow tank with a half decent light since plants will often “reach” for light less in a shallower tank. Nope. It got every bit of 12-13” Edited March 17, 2022 by Odd Duck Typo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jungle Fan Posted March 17, 2022 Author Share Posted March 17, 2022 That's how the Red Flames have been for me to quote a phrase "like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewbie Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Maybe my light is too strong so it stays small to avoid the light ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Duck Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 On 3/17/2022 at 6:17 PM, anewbie said: Maybe my light is too strong so it stays small to avoid the light ? It’s not likely trying to avoid the light. It probably just doesn’t need to “reach” for the light like they do in lower light. Stronger light means the plant can survive without working so hard to get enough light. It doesn’t need to produce taller leaves to get closer to the light. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewbie Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 On 3/17/2022 at 6:35 PM, Odd Duck said: It’s not likely trying to avoid the light. It probably just doesn’t need to “reach” for the light like they do in lower light. Stronger light means the plant can survive without working so hard to get enough light. It doesn’t need to produce taller leaves to get closer to the light. It was a tiny joke probably too tiny. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jungle Fan Posted November 23, 2022 Author Share Posted November 23, 2022 Just got done with surgery and treatments, and then got hit with COVID and it took several months to recover but now I'm hopefully finally back. After all of this it took quite a bit of pruning and maintenance to get this sort of back to how I wanted this tank to look. I thought I'd post some pictures of "The Jungle" at 2 1/2 years now. My Anubias seem to be on a break now but my Bucephalandras are blooming nonstop. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Duck Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 There’s that Fissidens moss I just mentioned in another thread! I couldn’t remember who posted it. @xXInkedPhoenixX, check out this thread. @Jungle Fan I’m glad you’re back and doing well! Tank looks terrific, still. Tank must be at a terrific balance to stay in such good shape with all you’ve been through. Keep moving through. You’ve got this! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jungle Fan Posted November 23, 2022 Author Share Posted November 23, 2022 @Odd Duck Yup, Fissidens fontanus, a.k.a. Phoenix moss grows into nice well rounded mounds, whereas my other moss Vesicularia montagnei, a.k.a. Christmas moss has almost fern like fronds that resemble Christmas tree branches and is a bit fuzzier in appearance. The Phoenix moss took longer to establish but was easier to apply, the Christmas moss is harder to apply because you have to attach it wedge by wedge it you want it to look natural but they work great together as neighbors. Thanks for your kind words, it's been a rough year but I have lots to be grateful for. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineSong Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 Your tank looks wonderful! Literally heavenly. You are maintaining a work of art, there, friend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jungle Fan Posted November 23, 2022 Author Share Posted November 23, 2022 @PineSong Thanks! I used to do well manicured aquascapes for years but decided I wanted something more natural, wilder looking this time and it came together the way I hoped. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick_G Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 It’s nice to hear from you @Jungle Fan! I hope you’re on your way to recovery and you’re feeling like posting more often. Your tank and photos are looking great! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXInkedPhoenixX Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 @Odd Duck thanks for pointing it out, WOWIE! What an awesome tank @Jungle Fan, love the moss! I aspire! I am DOUBLY glad you are better! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorydorasEthan Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 @Jungle Fan So glad to see you're okay! Your tank is looking awesome! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jungle Fan Posted November 26, 2022 Author Share Posted November 26, 2022 @Koi When I got recuperated and back to doing maintenance I actually witnessed what you had mentioned earlier, that the Lobelia cardinalis was turning red. and not just a little bit. Mine had gotten to where they actually had grown close to, and past the surface and were as red as the Ludwigia, I was going to take a picture of it for you but unfortunately It ended up being a very long maintenance session that day, and in the end I forgot. As soon as the Lobelia got to within 2 - 1 inches of the surface they were really noticeably turning red. I am so glad to be back on the forum and @Patrick_G @xXInkedPhoenixX @PineSong, and @CorydorasEthan I will try to be posting more regularly again now that my doctor's appointments will hopefully decrease in frequency soon. When I started this tank I had only 3 - 4 Bucephalandras placed in the tank, now I've got around 20 - 30 mostly behind the stump on the right side of the tank, and in close proximity to the Phoenix moss, and Anubias nana petite. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineSong Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 On 11/25/2022 at 8:43 PM, Jungle Fan said: When I started this tank I had only 3 - 4 Bucephalandras placed in the tank, now I've got around 20 - 30 mostly behind the stump on the right side of the tank, and in close proximity to the Phoenix moss, and Anubias nana petite. Well, you've surely come a long way! Inspiring! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jungle Fan Posted November 26, 2022 Author Share Posted November 26, 2022 @PineSong If you look at page 1 of the blog I've got a list of what all I started with in addition though 😄. Added some magnetic motion detector lights to the bottom of my stand which I attached to the metal frame the tank rests on, now the lights turn on when I open the doors. No more flashlights to hold while I work, and the lights are USB rechargeable. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Duck Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 On 11/25/2022 at 7:57 PM, Jungle Fan said: @PineSong If you look at page 1 of the blog I've got a list of what all I started with in addition though 😄. Added some magnetic motion detector lights to the bottom of my stand which I attached to the metal frame the tank rests on, now the lights turn on when I open the doors. No more flashlights to hold while I work, and the lights are USB rechargeable. This is genius! I thought I was smart adding click-on puck lights. If mine give out, I’m switching to the motion detectors ones! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardedbillygoat1975 Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 @Jungle Fana beautiful tank and what a journey. Thank you for sharing and a real inspiration as I setup my 60 g! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jungle Fan Posted November 26, 2022 Author Share Posted November 26, 2022 @Beardedbillygoat1975 would love to see some pictures of the 60g when you get it set up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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