Tyler Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 So my betta just passed away unfortunately and I'm wondering how I go about decontaminating his tank of whatever illness he had... My main concern is being able to reuse the subsrate which is fluval stratum. I can take the whole tank down as he was the only one in it, but it was pretty well established with plants and what not. How do I make this tank safe for future livestock? Not sure exactly what illness he had but he started with internal parasites, then got a wound from scratching which became infected and went downhill from there. May have been fish tb but who knows. Any advice appreciated... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Just give your tank 3 weeks with no fish and make weekly 50% water changes. Keep feeding the tank lightly to keep the cycle going. With no host, whatever it was will die. Most pathogens do not survive without something to infect. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Forunately Fish TB is pretty rare. If it were that, you might actually need a tear down, but it sounds like it was parasites, and then an opportunistic bacterial or fungal infection in the wound. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted February 9, 2021 Author Share Posted February 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, Brandy said: Just give your tank 3 weeks with no fish and make weekly 50% water changes. Keep feeding the tank lightly to keep the cycle going. With no host, whatever it was will die. Most pathogens do not survive without something to infect. No experiences with reoccurring illnesses when you've done this in the past? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 No. I have taken care of ich, flukes, and bacterial mysteries in tanks with snails, plants, and shrimp by removing the fish to a hospital tank, and reintroducing after 2 weeks. No issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted February 9, 2021 Author Share Posted February 9, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Brandy said: Forunately Fish TB is pretty rare. If it were that, you might actually need a tear down, but it sounds like it was parasites, and then an opportunistic bacterial or fungal infection in the wound. Have you experienced any cases of this yourself? My main cause for concern is how fast he went downhill. He was fine 5 days ago, all his fins healthy and all. Do parasites usually work that quickly? I also had an otocinclus in another tank die but he had no fin rot, ich, or hole in head.just sunken belly. He also died very quickly probably within a day or two of me noticing he wasn't very active. Edited February 9, 2021 by Tyler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, Tyler said: Have you experienced any cases of this yourself? My main cause for concern is how fast he went downhill. He was fine 5 days ago, all his fins healthy and all. Do parasites usually work that quickly? I also had an otocinclus in another tank die but he had no fin rot, ich, or hole in head.just sunken belly. He also died very quickly probably within a day or two of me noticing he wasn't very active. No I have forunately never had to deal with Fish TB as far as I know. I think @AdamTill might have?? Apologies if I am not remembering that correctly. I remember someone talking about it taking out their goldfish breeding operation. Admittedly it sounded tragic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamTill Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 (edited) Sadly so @Brandy. I detailed what happened here if it helps: Edited February 9, 2021 by AdamTill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Thanks @AdamTill, I couldn't remember the specifics, but I remember the blue fantails you mentioned in that thread because I had never seen "goldfish" that color. Sorry to dredge up bad memories. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamTill Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, Brandy said: Thanks @AdamTill, I couldn't remember the specifics, but I remember the blue fantails you mentioned in that thread because I had never seen "goldfish" that color. Sorry to dredge up bad memories. All good, if some good can come out of it it’s at least being able to warn others. We’ve dealt with it and moved on (though I only keep a single tank now). Nerd cred requires me to point out that they’re actually egg fish (blue egg phoenix’s) rather than fantails. Biggest difference is eggfish don’t have dorsal fins 🙂 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 I'm quite paranoid now, I'm not going to lie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamTill Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Tyler said: I'm quite paranoid now, I'm not going to lie... Sympathies, but I’m not in a position to say not to be. Getting it is statistically rare, especially with bettas given how they’re raised isolated. Edited February 10, 2021 by AdamTill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 11 hours ago, AdamTill said: 🙂 5 hours ago, AdamTill said: . 5 hours ago, AdamTill said: Sympathies, but I’m not in a position to say not to be. Getting it is statistically rare, especially with bettas given how they’re raised isolated. Im pretty certain he got it from a plant I moved in there... I'm curious why this isn't more talked about in the hobby given the apparent risk. Literally sounds like a nightmare... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamTill Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 5 hours ago, Tyler said: Im pretty certain he got it from a plant I moved in there... I'm curious why this isn't more talked about in the hobby given the apparent risk. Literally sounds like a nightmare... If I had to guess it’s because of the rarity of it, combined with relatively few firm diagnoses. I know we had it because it was diagnosed by a veterinary pathologist, but if you look through an average disease post on an average site most people don’t have the faintest clue how to figure out what’s affecting their fish. It’s the old joke about the tetra that’s bitten in half being diagnose with Ich. Then even when people are careful, they’re usually looked at as paranoid. I remember an interview with Gianne the betta lady where she said she doesn’t touch fish tank water without gloves on, and at the time I thought that was way overkill. I likewise remember someone asking Cory about it on a stream and he said he’d never seen it and thus wasn’t overly concerned about doing things like Gianne does. So, there you go I guess. I don’t do gloves but I also basically don’t buy fish anymore. I was super paranoid around the ones I have for about a year acting like they were contaminated, and now I’m just breeding those to maintain the population. It definitely changes how you keep fish, for sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 4 hours ago, AdamTill said: If I had to guess it’s because of the rarity of it, combined with relatively few firm diagnoses. I know we had it because it was diagnosed by a veterinary pathologist, but if you look through an average disease post on an average site most people don’t have the faintest clue how to figure out what’s affecting their fish. It’s the old joke about the tetra that’s bitten in half being diagnose with Ich. Then even when people are careful, they’re usually looked at as paranoid. I remember an interview with Gianne the betta lady where she said she doesn’t touch fish tank water without gloves on, and at the time I thought that was way overkill. I likewise remember someone asking Cory about it on a stream and he said he’d never seen it and thus wasn’t overly concerned about doing things like Gianne does. So, there you go I guess. I don’t do gloves but I also basically don’t buy fish anymore. I was super paranoid around the ones I have for about a year acting like they were contaminated, and now I’m just breeding those to maintain the population. It definitely changes how you keep fish, for sure. I did some more reading on it and some say it's extremely common, In as much as 50% of all freshwater and some say all freshwater harbors the bacteria for it but just won't affect fish that are healthy. While I'm not sure I'm convinced all water has it as then we would be seeing way more cases of it being transferred to humans, I think my chances of getting it should be slim to none considering I only have a few tanks and some people out there have dozens but I do know of a youtuber "the secret history living in your aquarium" who was recently hospitalized for a bad infection. Don't know all the details but we could all be at very high risk if that's the case. And people like cory should be almost guaranteed to experience it at some point... Not that I want that but when u spend years in a fish tank it makes your odds go way up. This is literally more freightening to me than covid ever has or will be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 There is a lot potential danger in the world, but I guess I am kinda philosophical about it. Lot of things can potentially happen, few actually do happen. No choice is risk free, and the bad things that do happen are usually a surprise, not the things you were actually worried about. Which is riskier? Going outside or staying inside? I don't know, and the answer might even be unknowable. Which in the end makes my fishkeeping rather carefree. I probably should be more concerned, but my personality won't let me. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 13 minutes ago, Daniel said: There is a lot potential danger in the world, but I guess I am kinda philosophical about it. Lot of things can potentially happen, few actually do happen. No choice is risk free, and the bad things that do happen are usually a surprise, not the things you were actually worried about. Which is riskier? Going outside or staying inside? I don't know, and the answer might even be unknowable. Which in the end makes my fishkeeping rather carefree. I probably should be more concerned, but my personality won't let me. Wisely spoken... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socqua Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) On 2/10/2021 at 4:11 PM, Tyler said: This is literally more freightening to me than covid ever has or will be. "Fish TB" or Mycobacterium Marinum: 1. Quote Most Mycobacterium spp. do not cause serious disease for healthy individuals. Immune compromised individuals are at higher risk for developing a systemic infection. If you are concerned you may have contracted Mycobacterium spp. from a infected system, contact your physician. 2. Quote Prognosis In most cases, especially in patients with immunocompetent status, M marinum infection with treatment carries an excellent prognosis. Treatment failure may result due to deeper-structure involvement and ulcerative skin lesions. There is a very low risk of antimicrobial resistance. Clinical outcomes of M marinum infections in patients with HIV infection do not differ from those without HIV infections. A continued immunocompromised state and ongoing risk of exposure can increase the risk of disease. Some patients may need lifelong suppression therapy. 3. Quote Infection rates in people are low. In the USofA, where they seem to get it a bit more than in the UK, the rate (for all cases, not just aquaria) is around 0.27 infections per 100,000 population. In the UK, the current rate of murder is 1.22 per 100,000 population. So, you’re likelier to be killed by a loon with a machine gun than catch it. It’s pretty rare. ... But seriously, don’t panic. Just be aware of it. Google images of symptoms and learn it inside and out. Know the signs and you’ll be fine. 4. Quote This bacteria does not cause serious disease in healthy individuals; however, if you are immune-compromised, then you are at higher risk for developing systemic infection. vs. "covid" or Novel Coronavirus 5. 6. Quote A total of 191 enrolled household contacts of 101 index patients reported having no symptoms on the day of the associated index patient’s illness onset, and among these 191 contacts, 102 had SARS-CoV-2 detected in either nasal or saliva specimens during follow-up, for a secondary infection rate of 53% (95% confidence interval [CI] = 46%–60%). 7. Quote Globally, as of 10:25am CET, 12 February 2021, there have been 107,252,265 confirmed cases of COVID-19, including 2,355,339 deaths, reported to WHO. One of these things is not like the other. I could find no reported deaths of fish TB in humans. I had a lot more posted until I hit ctrl-Z and it deleted a whole ton, but you get the idea. References 1. https://www.thesprucepets.com/tuberculosis-in-aquarium-fish-4844011 2. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK441883/ 3. https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/fishkeeping-news/should-you-be-worried-about-fish-tb/ 4. https://fishlab.com/fish-tuberculosis/ 5. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality 6. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6944e1.htm 7. https://covid19.who.int/ Edited February 12, 2021 by Socqua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamTill Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 I don’t think there’s risk of death,but the treatment protocols aren’t pleasant. Plus in our case a 2 month old was involved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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