Help with Celestial Pearl Danios

[Rick M.]

Please help. Let me start off with tank info. 10 gallon aqueon regular rectangle tank.
Relatively new tank. Started around 12/30/2020. But I believe it is cycled. Parameters are (as of today 2/4/2021) 0 ammonia 0 Nitrite and generally between 5-10ppm Nitrate. Water tested with API master test kit. Water temp usually hovers around 76 degrees. PH is 7.5, GH 120 KH is 80. I used the API test strips for GH and KH because that’s all I have to test those parameters. I usually do a 15-20% water change with tap water treated with Seachem Prime the night before it’s put back into the tank. Substrate is eco complete. Filtration is Aqueon quietflow 10 with Fluval sponges and fluval bio rings. I also have the aquarium co op intake sponge on the intake. Lighting is Fluval nano 3.0. Tank is planted generously but I wouldn’t say heavily as most of the plants are new to me and still growing. I have 10 cherry shrimp in this tank that are absolutely thriving. They have been in there for about a month now. I have kept fish before many years ago as a younger person and never really had any issues. Just getting back into the hobby. 
My problem: I recently tried to add 8 celestial Pearl danios that I purchased from the LFS. I acclimated them with bag in tank. Waited 30 mins and added approximately 8 oz of my tank water to their bag. I repeated this process 4 times for a total acclimation time of around 2 hours. I then netted the CPDs and added them to the tank. In 3 days all but one have died. Most of the CPDs seemed on the small side to me even for nano fish. I’m just wondering if perhaps I got a bad batch from the LFS or if I’m doing something wrong. I have heard these fish are quite hardy and can tolerate relatively wide range of parameters as long as they are steady. From what I’ve researched, my parameters and tank set up should be adequate, perhaps not absolutely ideal, to support these fish. Just wondering if anyone with more CPD experience can chime in with some advice or anything. I’ll do my best to respond to questions or responses in a timely manner. Thanks in advance.

frustrated and confused

[Rick M.]

Picture of my set up for reference.

[Garren]

I have CPD's and had them shipped to me. They were small and stressed out. I did similar acclimation that you did. The issue I found out right away and with other fish I have shipped in and even from the LFS is that sometimes they are under feed for shipping to reduce their stress and ammonia level spikes during shipping. I let fed my on 2nd day with high quality food (brine shrimp). Then waited a day feed again 4th day. Then I started the med trio treatment to make sure they were cleaned out of any disease. 

You never know when the LFS got them in and they could have been stressed out from shipping to the store then you got picked them up and that added more stress. This movement is somewhat normal in the hobby and sometimes some fish just don't handle it well. They can also could have something eternally going on as well. 

Tank parameters seem fine to me. Also, nice looking tank. 

Sorry for your loss. Sometimes LFS will give a couple day guarantee on the fish. I know mine does it as long as the water parameters are within range. I hope this helps a little. I am sure someone else will also chime in on what their experiences have been. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Garren

[Maggie]

Sorry to hear! I got 12 of their cousins, dwarf emerald danios, from my LFS. They were tiny juveniles, 1/3" at most, and still grey in color. I lost one in quarantine and two since then, but it seems these tiny fish are really shy and stress out easily. Full grown they're only about 3/4" and I have trouble counting them or checking on their health. As Garren said, if they're shipped from overseas it is a lot of stress on such a tiny fish to go through that process. Mine were locally bred and I think that had a lot to do with my success. 

Edited February 5, 2021 by Maggie
Spelling error

[Streetwise]

Preface: I have been using the term LFS for local fish store. I do not actually have any LFS, just pet stores with fish, so I am going to use LPS for local pet store.

One of my LPS has told me that they have had problems with the resiliance of CPDs in the last few months. I am not an industry insider, so take this with a grain of salt.

[Rick M.]

Thank you all for your replies. Garren I’m not sure if this LFS offers a credit or anything but I’m well outside of that window I’m sure. It’s been almost a week, I’ve just been scratching my head trying to figure the whole thing out and just couldn’t see if I did anything wrong. 

Streetwise thanks for the info. Most of the stock around my area seems very small and sort of sad looking. I know they’re nano fish but some of these places tried to sell me literal fry, likes eyes and tails for 9.99 a piece! I actually use a modified form of your Fluval nano 3.0 pro settings in my tank. Works great and I get to see my tank when I get home from work. 
Maggie emerald dwarf rasboras were my next choice if the CPDs didn’t work out or I couldn’t find them.

The one CPD I have left appears to be healthy and eating at least some of the food I’m offering. I want to track down some more CPDs for him to have some companions as I understand these are a sort of shoaling fish and need to be in a group. I thought about ordering the CPDs from Aquahuna but I have never ordered livestock online before. Any thoughts or suggestions on websites for these little guys would be considered and appreciated. I am feeling a little reserved about ordering more CPDs though with the info from Streetwise

[Streetwise]

Cheers @Rick M.. Let me be very specific that I am am only talking about what is available locally in Vermont.

[Rick M.]

I hear you. I’m in Georgia and it took me almost a month to even find the CPDs. I had to special order them from the LFS I went to. The guy on the phone told me they ordered 25 total and he was scrounging and searching the tank they had them in to find the 8 that I got from them. I don’t know if they just sold that many before I got to the store or if they had problems with them dying off like I did. I made sure to ask what they were feeding them, I was told brine shrimp and blood worms. I got some blood worms to supplement the foods that I already had at home. I have since ordered baby brine in anticipation of trying the CPDs again. Hopefully next stock is in better health and a little more resilient.

[PhillipHols]

I don’t think I can help figure out your issue but may I suggest drip acclimating the next batch?  I have a hunch that your LFS may have had a suspect batch which is unfortunate because they aren’t cheap critters.  
now I suggest drip acclimation only because this is what worked for me with my CPDs. I have ordered them one time so I am by no means an expert (grain of salt please).   However, I ordered mine from flip aquatics in the dead of a NY winter. The box came quickly but the heat packs had no life in them. The water temped at 56 degrees upon arrival. Needless to say I was forced to do a very slow drip acclimation. I raised ambient temps in the house, turned heaters in the tank off to drop their temps as much as I reasonably could, and drip acclimated at a rate of one drop per 2-3 seconds. It took a long while and even after hours of the drip, the temps were still far off so from there I re-bagged them and temperature acclimated to close their final temp gap. In the end, 8 out of 8 survived and they are doing very well. They have made it through quarantine and into their new home without an issue. I had a dozen cherry shrimp In the order that needed the same treatment. Also 100% success. 
with all that said, either flip aquatics delivered better quality fish to me than your store did for you, OR the drip method is the key to success. Mine went though the ringer to make it to my tank and held up fine.  TBH, I feel that your LFS owes you some new danios  

[Rick M.]

Thanks for the info Phillip. I had considered flip also but last time I checked they were out of stock. I know about drip acclimation, but I do not have the parts on hand to set up a drip acclimation. I will strongly consider it next go around because, as you said these are not cheap critters at all. I also agree that the LFS would be right in at least crediting me with store credit or new fish. I do feel like I’m outside a reasonable window for that though, as it’s almost been a week since I bought the original batch. I’ll talk with them on a return visit and bring a water sample so they can test it against their parameters, but with it being so long since the original purchase I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t give me anything. That’s just the way it is sometimes.

Maybe they can tell me their parameters in store so I can compare it to what I have and take the necessary actions/precautions for acclimation at home. Thanks for the reply

Edited February 5, 2021 by Rick M.

[Socqua]

47 minutes ago, Rick M. said:

parts on hand to set up a drip acclimation. 

If you have foot of air line tubing, then you can drip acclimate. Tie a knot and you have a drip. You can get fancy if you have a bucket or a bin, and there are other options, but that's not necessary.

[Garren]

2 hours ago, Rick M. said:

 I thought about ordering the CPDs from Aquahuna but I have never ordered livestock online before. Any thoughts or suggestions on websites for these little guys would be considered and appreciated. I am feeling a little reserved about ordering more CPDs though with the info from Streetwise

I have ordered several times from Aquahuna. My Shrimp and CPDs are doing great!! I highly recommend them. 

[Rick M.]

Socqua I’ll give that a try. I’ve got a bucket at home and some air line on the way. Thanks for the tip.

Garren Thanks for the input on Aquahuna. I’d like to give them a try.

[Jaesthetic]

I don't have anything helpful unfortunately, but I had the exact same thing happen to me also a week ago. I bought 8 CPDs and 2 pygmy cories from my LFS. Drip acclimated to a quarantine tank that fit their requirements and had good water parameters. 3 died that night, 2 more the next day, and over the second night 2 more died. I have 1 CPD left and it seems to be doing great along with the 2 pygmy cories, but now I'm scared of getting more cause I don't want to just kill them all again. 😪

[Lowells Fish Lab]

Hi Rick,

I feel the pain. It took me 3 or 4 rounds of CPD to get some that didnt die in the first week or two. My quick two cents is: keep them cooler (low to mid 70s), use the quarantine trio or at the very least general cure or paracleanse, keep the lights dim to reduce stress, and be picky about what you bring home. If they already look skinny it could of course be from poor nutrition but could also likely be internal parasites and they just wont survive that infection long.

I lost my first rounds to bacterial infections i believe because i kept them too warm. I lost the later rounds slowly to (opinion) parasites. It either emaciated them completely or attacked their gills.

The ones I have now I cared for just as described above. I bought them from the smallest LFS in town for the cheapest price i had ever paid. 

Good luck I hope you can get some that stay healthy. They're great little fish.

Edit: if you want to be careful about temp, verify your temperature using an accurate thermometer. I've had heaters set to 74 that were actually running at 78-79. 

Edited February 5, 2021 by Lowells Fish Lab

[JettsPapa]

16 hours ago, Rick M. said:

Socqua I’ll give that a try. I’ve got a bucket at home and some air line on the way. Thanks for the tip.

Garren Thanks for the input on Aquahuna. I’d like to give them a try.

 

I've received two lots from them, and my daughter-in-law at least one, and as far as I know they're all still alive.  When you first get them they may be pretty small and not colored up like you'd expect, but give them time.

[Schwack]

2 minutes ago, JettsPapa said:

 

I've received two lots from them, and my daughter-in-law at least one, and as far as I know they're all still alive.  When you first get them they may be pretty small and not colored up like you'd expect, but give them time.

I almost ordered my first batch from them, but I saw a review that suggested they would arrive as very small juvenile fish. I believe aquahuna responded saying that their fish are intended for seasoned fish keepers who have experience acclimating and fattening up young fish. They've also updated their info section on cpds to reflect the size and color you'll receive. I wasn't confident I had the knowledge to be successful at the time and ended up waiting.

I got mine from my lfs the day they received the shipment. They were small and pale, but colored up with steady feedings of baby brine shrimp. It was a challenge to get them to eat flake from the surface. I ended up crushing it up, mixing with water and squirting it near them. Now days they'll eat whatever, but initially they were very picky. 

[Rick M.]

Thank you everyone for the continued replies and information and support. I will give the CPDs another try and hope for a little healthier batch. I am seriously considering ordering from Aquahuna. I am aware that the fish they send do not look like the beautiful colored up fish in the first description picture. The fish that I can get locally, when they’re available at all, are of similar (prob worse) condition than the other pictures and reviews on Aquahuna. I have seen a few good things about Aquahuna so far, and even with the shipping, they would be basically the same price as the LFS. It seems like these fish are not quite as hardy in the beginning as some of the research and information would have you believe. I am not going to give up on these fish all together. I will give them another try or 2 and hopefully with some luck and diligence I will have my dream aquarium with the CPDs swimming happily.

Again thank you everyone. I have gotten more responses and support than I expected I would, and in a very short amount of time. I wish you all good luck in your aquarium and life endeavors. 

[JettsPapa]

18 hours ago, Schwack said:

I almost ordered my first batch from them, but I saw a review that suggested they would arrive as very small juvenile fish. I believe aquahuna responded saying that their fish are intended for seasoned fish keepers who have experience acclimating and fattening up young fish. They've also updated their info section on cpds to reflect the size and color you'll receive. I wasn't confident I had the knowledge to be successful at the time and ended up waiting.

I got mine from my lfs the day they received the shipment. They were small and pale, but colored up with steady feedings of baby brine shrimp. It was a challenge to get them to eat flake from the surface. I ended up crushing it up, mixing with water and squirting it near them. Now days they'll eat whatever, but initially they were very picky. 

Mine don't eat from the surface either, but prefer to catch food on the way down.  I feed them Hikari micro pellets, Bug Bites Tropical Formula for small fish, and very small portions of flake food.  They ignore the flake food until it starts to sink.  Of course some gets past them, but the pygmy corys and neocaridina shrimp clean it up nicely.

13 hours ago, Rick M. said:

Thank you everyone for the continued replies and information and support. I will give the CPDs another try and hope for a little healthier batch. I am seriously considering ordering from Aquahuna. I am aware that the fish they send do not look like the beautiful colored up fish in the first description picture. The fish that I can get locally, when they’re available at all, are of similar (prob worse) condition than the other pictures and reviews on Aquahuna. I have seen a few good things about Aquahuna so far, and even with the shipping, they would be basically the same price as the LFS. It seems like these fish are not quite as hardy in the beginning as some of the research and information would have you believe. I am not going to give up on these fish all together. I will give them another try or 2 and hopefully with some luck and diligence I will have my dream aquarium with the CPDs swimming happily.

Again thank you everyone. I have gotten more responses and support than I expected I would, and in a very short amount of time. I wish you all good luck in your aquarium and life endeavors. 

I don't think you'll be disappointed with getting them from Aqua Huna.  I got two batches from them last year, and while they weren't mature, they had the typical mature coloration.  The ones my daughter-in-law got last week were younger, and didn't show the adult coloration yet, but I'm sure they'll be okay.

[PhillipHols]

I’ve heard good things about aquahuna as well. I have ordered from live Aquaria once with mixed results. I can’t speak poorly on them as my tank was just freshly cycled and my experience was 0. Any mishaps may have been my fault but it who knows.  Aqua huna offers great prices but you have to buy a decent number of fish sometimes. It may or may not work for you.  

on a side note,  my CPDs aren’t shy, skittish, or easily bullied. Yeah they are tiny but they hold their own amongst some long fin leapord danio and those guys are always hyper.  When they first arrived they hid but most fish will. And after a week or so they began to show some great colors. They were rather dull for a while. Mine prefer to eat falling food, they do grab from the surface also, and I’ve seen them nibble at dying algae. They aren’t picky, just in need of the right size food.