Fin Rot, Possible Ich, Clamped Fins, Who knows what else

[Sabrina]

Water Parameters:

• pH - about 7
• Nitrates - about 10
• Hardness - between 150-300ppm
• Nitrite - 0
• Ammonia - 0
• KH/Buffer - 80ish
• Water Temperature - 77-79 F
• 45 gallon
• 2 live Anubia plants
• 1 driftwood
• 2 air stones
• 2 aquaclear 70 HOB filters - carbon, poly filter and purigen being used
• sand substrate
• usually do a 25% water change every 2 weeks but probably switching to 10% every week

Current Stock:

• 4 Amano Shrimp
• 1 hillstream loach
• 2 oto catfish
• 1 glo danio
• 4 glo tetras
• 4 cory cats
• 5 guppies

I've had my tank set up since last January. Newbie here. I've had terrible luck and lost probably about 20 fish/shrimp/snails over that time. About 8 months in, I found out, by luck, that I had copper in my tap water. I have switched water source and now have no copper. Added poly filter and it turned really blue right away. I waited until all the copper was out of my water and made sure no more fish were dying before recently adding more. I don't currently have a quarantine tank. 

My very first fish were 5 glo tetras and 5 glo danios from Petco. Not sure if they were sick when I got them. I have 1 remaining glo danio and 4 remaining glo tetras.

Put in 5 guppies a week ago. They were gorgeous. Now 1 has a tail more than half gone, 2 have beginning signs of fin rot, my lfs thinks I might have ich on my glo tetras tails.

Removed Carbon, Poly Filter and Purigen. Treated for 1 day with Melafix and MetroPlex (at the advice of my LFS). Felt like my 1 guppy was looking worse, another guppy is now sitting on the bottom breathing heavy and hiding, and had read that Melafix doesn't really treat fin rot but can aid in fin repair after the underlying bacteria is gone. So I did a 25% water change and followed Aquarium Co-Op's suggestion of treating with 1tsp of Ich-X per 10 gallon and Maracyn 1 packet per 10 gallons. (I treated for 40 gallons to account for the space the sand and decor takes up.)

It's now been 24 hours. I'm feeling like there is no improvement. I know I'm super anxious because I have lost so many fish and I'm new to treating my tank, but the YouTube video says to NOT follow the instructions and to just dose once and then leave the tank for a week. The instructions say to dose everyday. PLEASE HELP!!! 

What do I do?????

Thanks so much.

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Sabrina
Added Pics

[Colu]

I would treat with aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 2 but it will harm your live plant if you can't use salt treat with maracyn

[Sabrina]

11 minutes ago, Sabrina said:

I did a 25% water change and followed Aquarium Co-Op's suggestion of treating with 1tsp of Ich-X per 10 gallon and Maracyn 1 packet per 10 gallons. (I treated for 40 gallons to account for the space the sand and decor takes up.)

It's now been 24 hours. I'm feeling like there is no improvement. I know I'm super anxious because I have lost so many fish and I'm new to treating my tank, but the YouTube video says to NOT follow the instructions and to just dose once and then leave the tank for a week. The instructions say to dose everyday. 

 

[Colu]

Ich x won't work on fin rot i world keep using the maracyn you might have to do two courses of the maracyn it will take  time to work you need to patient

[Sabrina]

3 minutes ago, Colu said:

Ich x won't work on fin rot i world keep using the maracyn you might have to do two courses of the maracyn it will take  time to work you need to patient

But do I follow Co-Op's advise and just do the one dose I did yesterday and let it sit, or do I dose everyday per the box?

[Colu]

For maracyn I would follow instructions on box

[quikv6]

I think the salt is a good idea. Most plants can tolerate a little. Erythromycin also should help. Additionally, don't underestimate the importance of good, clean water. Fin rot can be triggered by poor water conditions, which could be the result of overfeeding, poor parameters, etc. It's important to find the root of what triggered the problem in the first place.

 

[Colu]

I do 25% water changes ever week I have never had fin rot 

[Sabrina]

23 minutes ago, quikv6 said:

I think the salt is a good idea. Most plants can tolerate a little. Erythromycin also should help. Additionally, don't underestimate the importance of good, clean water. Fin rot can be triggered by poor water conditions, which could be the result of overfeeding, poor parameters, etc. It's important to find the root of what triggered the problem in the first place.

 

My water is always clean. 0, 0 and less than 20 nitrates. I do consistent water changes. There is really no rhyme or reason. I got a tank for my kids and wanted a good experience so I did ALL my research first and have put so much effort in money into this and I just keep losing fish. It's frustrating and heartbreaking and getting expensive. GRRRR

[Colu]

Sometimes fish get sick for no apparent reason I had not had disease out break  for 15years before my fish started dieing of  a mystery illness

Edited January 29, 2021 by Colu

[Fish Folk]

There's a bunch of excellent "fish doctors" on the forum. I don't pretend to be one of them. However, I do keep 20+ tanks, and have dealt with some Ich outbreaks and fin rot. 

Here is what I'd do if it were my 45 gal. I may not fully understand your tap water situation, so please pardon me -- I'm just thinking about it assuming it were our tap water. 

(1) There does appear to be Ich, most noticeably, on the tali of the pink glowfish. We use Ich-X exactly as described on the bottle. It can be used right alongside API Erythromycin and API General Cure. That's the old "Med Trio" Cory has talked about in the past. I think he's found different brands, but it's essentially the same chemicals. When you use Ich-X, you need to Raise the temperature slightly (say, about to 80-degrees Farenheit) to speed up the Ich life cycle. Ice falls off and gets on the gravel / substrate in little "tomites." You _must_ vigilantly gravel vac to remove all Ich tomites before you refill and add new Ich-X treatment. 

(2) It also appears that you have fin rot. This may be due to something about the way that you feed the fish . . . other times it's brought on by other decay. If you notice that your food does not all get eaten, but lies on the floor of the aquarium, that's a recipe for disease. The thing to understand is that many fish sleep at night on the _bottom_ of the aquarium, leaving their fins susceptible to whatever is down there. This is why gravel vacuuming is essential. Now, if you've got a planted tank, it's possible your gravel vacuuming and dosing with meds is going to severely mess with the plants -- which is why a separate quarantine tank is always recommended. Anyway, you'll need to use something like Erythromycin to help the fins. You'll want to drain the water and gravel vac for Ich issues -- but also the clean the bottom of detritus, and anything else nasty that's building up there. And after you do that water change (however much the label says . . . 25% - 30%) and have refilled and treated the water, _then you dose with more Ich-X and Erythromycin. You want the full chemical impact. Believe me . . . the medicine is expensive and the impact can be otherwise brutal on plants and even sometimes on bacterial colonies in filters. Make sure your carbon is removed form your filters! Carbon will suck out medicine. 

This is why serious aquarists prefer to set up a quarantine tank so that when this happens, they can separate sick fish out and treat them with major attention. A clear, glass-bottomed quarantine tank gives tomites less areas to embed into, and the medicine really gets into the water column. 

Sorry to hear about your sickness . . . really hope you can pull through. If not, just know you're not alone! Been there . . . lost some expensive fish before . . . just don't give up on the hobby. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Fish Folk

[Sabrina]

Thank you so much for the detailed response. I never leave any food lying at the bottom I make sure it’s all eaten. With every water change I vacuum the sand. I only did one dose of the ich-x because I did read that you’re supposed to do a water change between every dose but I’m also treating with Maracyn and that says to not do a water change during dosing. Lost one of my guppies this morning. Now another one is laying on the bottom and I’m pretty sure I’ll lose him. I do have one glo Danio who I can visibly see bullying my fish. I am trying to catch him with no luck I’m going to give him away. Any ideas? I have a net sitting in there with food and he’s not going for it. 

[Brandy]

Given the symptoms, ich is not the biggest worry compared to the fin rot and general apparent misery. Given that you have multiple things actively going on, the sit and soak method that is Cory's preemptive treatment is not going to cut it. 

If you look at the box directions, Maracyn and paraclense dosing schedules are compatible, ichX is not. When I have a heavily sick batch of fish I therefore use the Maracyn and Paraclense (aka API Erythromycin and API General Cure) thru a full cycle per box instructions, then subsequently treat for ich. During the Maracyn/paraclense treatment I don't raise the temp. 

The reason I do this is that the bacterial and parasite infections are faster killers than ich. I then tackle the ich. Once that is beat I do a second round of parasite treatment for any unkilled eggs. 

Surprisingly, I have not had my cycle crash through all this. 

[Squeegee79]

Have you ever noticed the tetras chasing the guppies? The guppy tails really look like they are getting nipped at, which can cause infections.

 

[Sabrina]

Thank you for the replies. My one remaining danio was a real bully and I would catch him chasing the guppies. I gave him away yesterday. Lost 2 guppies yesterday and 1 was dead this morning. I have 2 left. The one with the really bad tail is still hanging in, although I see no improvement yet. 
Been treating the whole tank with Maracyn per the box instructions. Today was day 4. I will dose tomorrow and then do a 25% water change on Monday. I got a QT tank today that I am setting up. I had 2 HOB filters on my display tank, so I moved one over for the BB. Going to move the guppies after treatment is done if I see no improvement. 
If I QT them, how do I know my main tank is clear of disease before moving them back? Do I need to replace all my filter media?