Mysterious shrimp deaths

[Bort]

Hey there,

New to the hobby. I've got a good friend who has way more experience helping me along the way. He suggested I post here about my shrimp problems. Apologies for the wall of text...

A little under a month ago I bought 6 neocaridina shrimp which all died within a week. About one a day. Half of them appeared to be failed molts as they had the "white ring of death".

I thought that maybe it had to do with how I acclimated them. I dripped acclimated them (after floating the bag for a bit) over the course of about 90 minutes. The bag was in a separate container during the drip process. After the deaths occurred I thought back on my process and considered that maybe the temp dropped too much during the drip acclimation (as the bag wasn't floating during the drip).

This past weekend I purchased some Amano shrimp to try again. This time I drip acclimated for around 90 minutes with the bag floating in the water the whole time. The shrimp were added to the tank on Saturday and I started to notice problems yesterday (Wednesday). One shrimp was on his side/back twitching in a way that seemed like it was trying to molt. This morning it was dead, hard to tell but I think I saw a white band on it's back leading me to believe it was a failed molt. I found one other shrimp corpse in the tank under a leaf, snails had got to it though so it was hard to tell if it had a white ring. 

My GH seemed like it may be a bit low (as seen below) so early today I added some seachem equilibrium to raise that up a bit, I will test again once it's settled and ran through the filter. I expect it to have raised the readings by about 3 dgh. 

I realized that it may just be a result of my water not being hard enough, but would that cause the shrimp to die so quickly? Fully possible that I just didn't have a grasp on the chemistry behind GH/KH, and never had my levels high enough. But figured I would check here to see if anyone had further insight!

One weird thing to note. When I was acclimating the first batch of shrimp I added an air stone to my tank as I didn't think I had enough surface agitation. That seemed to create an interesting effect on my water flow. Debris would be drawn towards the air stone and settle on the substrate in it's general area, this is also where I found the majority of the dying/dead shrimp. I have since swapped out air pumps for something quieter an that has a bit less flow (now using the USB air pump from Aquarium co-op with an adjustable flow valve on the tubing). 

Info on my tank:

• pH - 6.6
• Nitrates - <20ppm (I use Easy Green, Nitrates were at 0 before I started using fertilizer)
• Hardness - 4 GH
• Nitrite - 0
• Ammonia - 0
• KH/Buffer - 3 KH
• Water Temperature - 77-78 (inconsistencies with thermometers) 
• I will be testing for copper later today when I borrow a test kit from my buddy

Weekly ~20-25% water changes, light gravel vacuuming as the plants and hardscape make it difficult to get to much of the substrate. I also condition my water and do my best to match water temps during changes. I typically use a small container when doing a change, I have a Python on the way. 

Planted community tank. 20 Gallon long. 10 Ember tetras, 5 otocinclus, 2 zebra nerite snails. Good amount of "pest" snails (ramshorn, bladder snails, MTS). I keep the light on the lower side and added catappa leaves to make for a darker environment to keep the embers happy. The leaves have been in the tank for close to a month and seemed to have no noticeable effect on water parameters. 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Bort

[Colu]

You could add some wonder shell to increase you water heardness

[Garrett Dare]

As the friend who got Bort into the hobby, I'll add that we live in the same city. We have fairly soft water and I've tested for copper. I'm going to let Bort borrow my copper and phosphate test kits. I've acclimated three groups of shrimp the same way and had 0 deaths. I don't know enough about shrimp to know what would cause these quick deaths and failed molts besides stress. But the 6 cherry shrimp dying one at a time is baffling.

[Garrett Dare]

7 minutes ago, Colu said:

You could add some wonder shell to increase you water heardness

Do you think there's much benefit to using wondershells and equilibrium? I used to, but have stopped buying wondershells because I assumed using both was overkill.

[JettsPapa]

I don't know about the amanos, but I suspect a problem with the pH on the neocaridinas.  6.6 is pretty low for them.

[Hobbit]

19 hours ago, Garrett Dare said:

Do you think there's much benefit to using wondershells and equilibrium

I think there might be a benefit in that the wondershell will put a lot more calcium in the water. Equilibrium has some calcium but maybe not enough for the shrimp on its own.

If you’ve had success with your shrimp without wondershell though, then it’s probably not necessary.

@Bort in terms of your shrimp deaths, I agree with you that it sounds like failed molts. Like @JettsPapa I’d suggest trying to raise your pH a bit, and/or add supplemental calcium. Failed molts can sometimes be a result of not enough calcium.

Also: Welcome to the forum and the hobby! 😊

[tolstoy21]

I feed my shrimp Mineral Junkie as a supplement to normal feedings to help prevent these kinds of problems. I’d try adding something with calcium/minerals to their diet. There are a number of foods out there that can promote good molt/shell health for invertebrates.

I’m also wondering that if they died of failed molts a week after you introduced them, if this isn’t a result of the care they got before you owned them as I’m not 100% sure how long the molting process is, nor how long it takes shrimp to utilize calcium pre molt for an effective and healthy molt. 

Maybe try another batch of shrimp from a known good tank bred source (if you didn’t do this the first time). 

When I started with shrimp, my first batch died like yours, fast. I got a second batch from another source and without changing anything, they all thrived. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by tolstoy21

[tolstoy21]

On 1/21/2021 at 4:46 PM, Bort said:

One weird thing to note. When I was acclimating the first batch of shrimp I added an air stone to my tank as I didn't think I had enough surface agitation. That seemed to create an interesting effect on my water flow. Debris would be drawn towards the air stone and settle on the substrate in it's general area, this is also where I found the majority of the dying/dead shrimp.

I suspect the shrimp drifted towards the stone after dead,  on the current created by the updraft. I use a moderately bubbling air stone with crystal reds and they appear to appreciate it and the extra oxygenation. Before that I only used a small HOB. They’ve done much better in my experience with the addition or the air stone. 

[Mr_Manifesto]

I don't think your acclimation process is causing anything, so I wouldn't stress about that.    I do think that the pH is pretty low for neocaridina shrimp.  That is probably what is causing this.  You could try adding crushed coral to the tank and it will help buffer the pH higher. 

[Bort]

Thank you all for the advice and insight, it's very much appreciated!

I have since added a wondershell to the tank and am looking into ways to get my pH bit higher. Crushed coral sounds like a good way to go, thanks for pointing me in that direction. 

The amanos came from a different source than the neocaridinas. My buddy has a source for locally bred neos. If I try again to have shrimp in this tank I will look into getting it from the breeder. 

I have decided to make a smaller shrimp-only tank. Ideally I can get a small colony going and introduce some of those to the community tank. Taking my time with it though, making sure to do it right. 

I still have 1 (maybe 2) amanos that have survived in the community tank. Here's hoping he makes it!

Edited January 26, 2021 by Bort

[Socqua]

Good luck with the locally bred! I was going to suggest you steal some from shrimp from @Garrett Dare lol, if they have neos then surely they have some extra :).

Is your pH about the same as Garrett's? Or compared to your tap water? Or could the leaves be lowering the pH down (especially with your softer water)? I would suggest not adding any buffer to your shrimp-only tank like leaves or driftwood for now and try to keep the pH above 7.

[Bort]

17 minutes ago, Socqua said:

Good luck with the locally bred! I was going to suggest you steal some from shrimp from @Garrett Dare lol, if they have neos then surely they have some extra :).

Is your pH about the same as Garrett's? Or compared to your tap water? Or could the leaves be lowering the pH down (especially with your softer water)? I would suggest not adding any buffer to your shrimp-only tank like leaves or driftwood for now and try to keep the pH above 7.

I can't take his precious amanos from him!

I will need to check with him on the pH, will test mine against the tap water today (can't believe I haven't done that yet!). I did take most of the leaves out of my tank during this weekend's water change, hopefully that has an impact. 

I have a nice piece of spiderwood I was planning on using in the shrimp tank, I had read that it has rather small impact on pH compared to other woods, but I will reconsider using it. I'm in no rush to get the shrimp in the new tank, I may just have the spiderwood in there during cycling and monitor the pH closely. 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Bort

[Socqua]

Sounds like a solid plan to me, fingers crossed!

[Wes L.]

I agree with all the comments here about your low GH and PH. Those parameters are a bit low for neocaridina and amano, however that won't kill them instantly. Over time that could take it's toll, but not this quickly. The problem could be temperature difference between the temperature of the water in the bag the shrimp come in and the temperature of the tank water. A 4 degree difference for shrimp is a massive change if it's done too quickly. When their water warms up, especially 4 degrees or more, it prompts the shrimp to molt. 4 degrees is the magic temperature. So if you have shrimp in a plastic bag and float it in tank water that's more than 4 degrees warmer, it will cause the water to heat up too quickly and the shrimp to suddenly molt, which they won't be able to do so they'll die from a failed molt.

I always take the bag of shrimp and dump it into a container and then measure the temperature of the water that they're in. What works really great is a meat thermometer if you have one of those in your kitchen. They can give you an accurate reading even if there's only an inch or two of water in your container. If the temperatures of the waters are within 4 degrees, then I start the drip acclimation. However, if the temperature difference is more than 4 degrees, then I let the container with the shrimp in it slowly acclimate to the ambient temperature of the room, just by leaving it sitting in the room, even if it takes 5 hours, which has happened. Of course this only works if your room temperature is within 4 degrees of your tank water. Depending on what temperature you keep your tank at, and how warm or cold your room is. Certain times of the year may not be the best for buying shrimp for you.

If for instance you keep your tank at 77 degrees, and now that it's winter maybe the temperature of your room is only 69 degrees. Let's say you get your shrimp home, measure the temp of their water and it's only 71 degrees, so 6 degrees cooler than your tank water. That's not within 4 degrees of your tank, so don't float the container or drip acclimate yet. You'll have to slowly raise the temperature of the water the shrimp are in. And here's where you have to get creative....how to raise the temp slowly? I have a Fluval 3 light, on my tanks which lets off a lot of heat. So I push the light towards the back of the tank so it isn't too close to the container the shrimp are in and let the container sit on top of my tank for an hour or two. The water will warm up a bit, and once it has, I slide it a little closer to the warm light, and keep doing this until the container water is within 4 degrees of the tank water. If you don't have a light that lets off heat, then you'll have to find some other heat source, but don't heat the water up too quickly. Seriously, the longer the better. During the acclimation process I always throw a little bit of shrimp food in the container for the shrimp since the acclimation process normally takes 6 to 8 hours for me, and I will always do that, because to this day I have never had a shrimp die on me after adding it to the tank.

[Garrett Dare]

4 minutes ago, Wes L. said:

If for instance you keep your tank at 77 degrees, and now that it's winter maybe the temperature of your room is only 69 degrees. Let's say you get your shrimp home, measure the temp of their water and it's only 71 degrees, so 6 degrees cooler than your tank water. 

Ah! See this make perfect sense for the amano deaths. My batches of amanos have never had problems, but both of my shrimp tanks are around 72 and my house is usally 68-69. And I drip acclimate them. Thanks so much for the thorough explanation!

[Bort]

@Wes L. Thank you so much for your reply. Very helpful, I will take similar steps next time I try to acclimate shrimp.