Kat_Rigel Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 (edited) Hi all, I am having an issue with my shrimp. I have a 60 gallon, well established aquarium (over a year.) It contains guppies, pencilfish, corys, and cloud minnows. They all seem to be doing OK. For inverts, I have 2 bamboo shrimp, cherry shrimp, and assassin snails. Two weeks ago I had a thriving colony of neocaridinia cherry shrimp. See photo- they were all over the food, they were chowing down on the algae on the back of the tank, feeling happy. Yesterday, I went to scoop some out for a different tank and noticed they were hard to find. Today, my fears were confirmed when I looked in the filter- there's always a few that live in there, but this time it was just carnage, tons of dead cherries. I also noticed that my bamboo shrimp shed yesterday, but it has not opened its fans to eat. Just crawling around, not by the filter as usual. (See before and after pics.) I can't currently find the other one, but there are lots of plants. Only a few cherries alive. I want to say there might even be fewer assassin snails. The cories are also acting strangely. Usually shy and hiding, always on the bottom. They have been very active and sometimes swimming mid-tank, I actually thought it was mating behavior initially, but now I am worried it could be as symptom of something in the tank. Current tank parameters of this morning: ammonia 0, nitrate 0, nitrite 0, pH 7.8. Gh is 12, Kh 7, as of 8/5. No major changes to the tank that I can think of. 3 days ago I got a couple new plants from aquarium co op, I rinsed under water but did not quarantine. And about a week ago I got some mature bio filter out of the HOB for a different tank. None of that really seems like it should change anything. I lowered the temp 3 degrees (from 80 to 77) a few days ago but was careful to do so slowly to avoid shock. I have been dosing Flourish excel daily for the past 2 weeks per directions but will be cutting that out ASAP as sources are telling me it basically kills things. I also dose fluorish twice a week, which the plants gobble up greedily. I am worried perhaps there was a change in the water from the city? Like maybe added copper, since all the inverts are suffering? Unfortunately I don't have a copper test handy. Anyone know what might be going on? Should I turn the heat back up? This was a perfectly healthy, balanced tank just 2 weeks ago. 😕 I also keep magenta mystery snails in a different tank, use the same tap water, and they are all fine. Edited August 14, 2020 by Kat_Rigel Edited for clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitzzard Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 (edited) So sounds like you have a HOB filter for this tank? Do you have a pre-filter sponge? I'm assuming no because otherwise the shrimps wouldn't be able to get in there. I would strongly recommend a pre-filter sponge so your shrimp can't crawl into your filter for food and then get stuck in there and die, and you would be none the wiser. You mentioned that you found the dead shrimp yesterday and this morning the ammonia reads at 0? That's a bit strange, did you happen to test ammonia right when you found the dead shrimp in your filter? I suppose it's possible you had an ammonia spike from the dead shrimp, and since you took them out yesterday, your bacteria processed all the ammonia overnight, which results in the 0 reading in the morning, but your animals are showing the aftereffects of the ammonia spike. And Flourish Excel is kind of harmful to your shrimp, but you shouldn't lose more than a couple a week even when you are dosing everyday as long as you are following the recommended dose. Edited August 14, 2020 by Spitzzard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat_Rigel Posted August 14, 2020 Author Share Posted August 14, 2020 (edited) I tested the ammonia this morning, and didn't find the shrimp until this evening. (Sorry, that was unclear.) Yes, HOB filter. No pre filter sponge, but I've had these shrimp in there for 6-7 months and it hasn't been an issue. (At the very least, they were repopulating faster than any I was losing.) Also has a 6 inch bubble bar for flow on the opposite side of the tank. Planted. Put two root tabs in about a month ago... Just checked ammonia again, only a few hours after finding the shrimp, and it is still zero. I wouldn't expect 20 or so small shrimp would foul the water of a 60gal very easily. Edited August 14, 2020 by Kat_Rigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitzzard Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 I guess it depends on how long those dead shrimp have been there, in my experience whenever my shrimp colony start acting funny i would find a dead one or two hidden away in the corner somewhere, half decomposed, but then again all of my tanks are 10 to 20 gals. Also i think if Seachem Excel or copper in the water were the culprit, i would expect to find dead shrimps in your tank as well, instead of all of them in the filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 I know it is a big tank, and has been set up a long time. You were dosing excel...to help control algae maybe? I wonder, were they straight up hungry, so they migrated to the filter? Are you target feeding any of the affected species? My vote is that the excel is at least part of the problem--either it is cutting down on the food that was supporting the colony, or it is toxic to them, or both. I seem to remember an ACO video that mentioned that if you don't see filter feeders opening their fan hands it can be because the water doesn't have enough particulates to feed on? Also If my khuli loaches are mid water it is because they are hungry and competing with the other fish. I think @Irene mentioned that she saw that in them too, and you said your corys were active and acting unusually. All the affected species are at least partially detritivores and all of them might be more sensitive to chemical pollutants for that reason. I know you are stopping excel, but maybe boost clean food for those guys for a bit to help them recover? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat_Rigel Posted August 14, 2020 Author Share Posted August 14, 2020 8 hours ago, Brandy said: I know it is a big tank, and has been set up a long time. You were dosing excel...to help control algae maybe? I wonder, were they straight up hungry, so they migrated to the filter? Are you target feeding any of the affected species? My vote is that the excel is at least part of the problem--either it is cutting down on the food that was supporting the colony, or it is toxic to them, or both. I seem to remember an ACO video that mentioned that if you don't see filter feeders opening their fan hands it can be because the water doesn't have enough particulates to feed on? Also If my khuli loaches are mid water it is because they are hungry and competing with the other fish. I think @Irene mentioned that she saw that in them too, and you said your corys were active and acting unusually. All the affected species are at least partially detritivores and all of them might be more sensitive to chemical pollutants for that reason. I know you are stopping excel, but maybe boost clean food for those guys for a bit to help them recover? You know what, I was pondering the same thing last night. I think it might be the food. A few weeks ago I was feeling inspired and bought all sorts of fancy new foods for the fish-repashy community, frozen blood worms, frozen daphnia. But I didn't really think about the shrimp. Previously I was feeding some kind of generic fish flake food and sometimes bug bites. I would do an algae wafer a few times a week and the shrimp and corys were all over it. I've been so excited to feed these fancy new foods that I wasnt really doing the wafers anymore.. It would also fit with why the other snail tank I have is fine- they get different food. I think this fits! What do you mean by "clean food?" Foods that are targeted more to the shrimp and corys? I will try this for a while and update if I see changes, but it will certainly take a while for the shrimp to bounce back (if there are enough to repopulate.) Right now I am mainly hoping to save the bamboo shrimp- I love those little guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Kat_Rigel said: What do you mean by "clean food?" Foods that are targeted more to the shrimp and corys? I will try this for a while and update if I see changes, but it will certainly take a while for the shrimp to bounce back (if there are enough to repopulate.) Right now I am mainly hoping to save the bamboo shrimp- I love those little guys! By "clean" I just mean that you are adding new food to the tank, rather than relying on biofilm that may or may not have been contaminated or killed off by the excel or unspecified water additives. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat_Rigel Posted August 14, 2020 Author Share Posted August 14, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Brandy said: By "clean" I just mean that you are adding new food to the tank, rather than relying on biofilm that may or may not have been contaminated or killed off by the excel or unspecified water additives. Ah, ok. Oh geez, I didn't even think about the biofilm getting killed off. Starting to make even more sense now... Edited August 14, 2020 by Kat_Rigel Forgot to add something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Yeah, "biofilm" is lots of components, I am sure not all of them were damaged or nobody would use excel, and your tank would be cycling. But I don't know if excel would damage the algae portion of that...Honestly, I am guessing about the cause, but the behaviors seem hungry. I figure feeding hungry things is usually a safe first step. 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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