Trying to breed Apistogramma Agassizzi

[KyleKVK]

They’re in a 20G tall. I wanna breed these guys so bad but the female seems to hate the male and he keeps chasing her. She can’t seem to get away from him. I’ve had these guys for months and she hasn’t shown spawning colors even once. 
 

I don’t know how old they are, maybe she could be a juvenile?
 

Things I’ve done:

- Given them little houses. They have two. One cave and one coconut shell, they don’t use them.

- Fed her mostly freeze dried bloodworms, she loves them.

- Increased the water temperature to 82F

- Maintain the pH at approximately 7, I’m not chasing pH but that’s what they like

- Given them some dither fish. I have a small school of cardinal tetras, a mystery snail, an Oto cat, and two male Endlers. Everyone else is happy and keeps to themselves.

- The tank is moderately planted and has driftwood for them to hide under.

Edited January 12, 2021 by KyleKVK

[FrozenFins]

can you send us a picture of the pair, maybe as you said before their both males or both females.

Also heres a video aquarium co-op and master breeder dean did on breeding Apistogramma

 

[KyleKVK]

Here are photos of the pair. I’ve seen Dean’s video! It’s one of my faves. She looks orange here because she was near the top of the tank. She’s typically very pale. 

[FrozenFins]

4 minutes ago, KyleKVK said:

Here are photos of the pair. I’ve seen Dean’s video! It’s one of my faves. She looks orange here because she was near the top of the tank. She’s typically very pale. 

looks like a female to me, can we see the male?

Also feeding them high protein foods like frozen blood worms may help with them to start breeding

[KyleKVK]

4 minutes ago, James Black said:

looks like a female to me, can we see the male?

Also feeding them high protein foods like frozen blood worms may help with them to start breeding

Sorry, the top photo is the male! Bottom is the female 🙂

I don't have access to frozen blood worms, but I've been feeding them freeze-dried ones from the co-op. 

[Fish Folk]

3 minutes ago, KyleKVK said:

Sorry, the top photo is the male! Bottom is the female

May be two males. We’d just order a confirmed female to add to the set up. Once a pair clearly forms, remove the third wheel. 

[Fish Folk]

Also, dither fish help. Pencil fish all the way. 

[Fish Folk]

Closer look... that may be two females...

 Color forms vary. 

[KyleKVK]

27 minutes ago, Fish Folk said:

May be two males. We’d just order a confirmed female to add to the set up. Once a pair clearly forms, remove the third wheel. 

My LFS is knowledgeable and I’d usually trust them to know a female, but I’ve called and they’re out of stock at the moment! You think that would explain why he chases her a lot?

[Randy]

@Robert want to throw your two cents in on the sex of these apistos?

[Fish Folk]

2 minutes ago, KyleKVK said:

You think that would explain why he chases her a lot?

Not sure. Can you post a 1-2 min video? Watching them live may help elminate unknowns.

[Robert]

Going to say male and female. This color line I do find very hard to sex easily. Usually I look for black bottom pectoral fins but on these more yellowish/gold ones usually hint towards female. But with apistos always have the sneakers.

[KyleKVK]

Just now, Fish Folk said:

Not sure. Can you post a 1-2 min video? Watching them live may help elminate unknowns.

I can’t post video but I just took these two photos. Female is the smaller one hiding in the plants, male is the brighter orange one. I’ll find a way to upload a video and link it here  

 

 

[Fish Folk]

5 minutes ago, KyleKVK said:

You think that would explain why he chases her a lot?

We've never kept these particular types of Apistos. But we have observed, with others, that non-dominant males sometimes will take on the "look" of a female coloration in order to avoid getting bullied. On the other hand, we've watched females really get territorial with each other too. 

[KyleKVK]

2 minutes ago, Fish Folk said:

We've never kept these particular types of Apistos. But we have observed, with others, that non-dominant males sometimes will take on the "look" of a female coloration in order to avoid getting bullied. On the other hand, we've watched females really get territorial with each other too. 

Here’s a video: https://share.icloud.com/photos/01GUQ3Hd3uNveIu4UE_Z6XdQQ please ignore background noise!

[Fish Folk]

7 minutes ago, KyleKVK said:

Here’s a video

Ok. The brighter, longer-finned Apisto is definitely a male. The smaller one is likely a female. There's the possibility as Robert says that it's a "sneaker male." But that's tricky to tell. If it is a male and female, sometimes they just do not pair up. 

It looks like they're in a 10-gal tall aquarium. If it were us, we'd separate them -- move the (assumed) female out to a sand-bottom 20 gal. long, and get her really well adjusted. Some leaf litter is nice, along with a well-planted tank. The apisto caves are good, but many apistos like really small holes. Sometimes we jam a rock close to the hole to close it off. Feed her really well on quality foods. After all is well -- about a month -- bring the male over and see if he takes to her then. 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Fish Folk

[KyleKVK]

Just now, Fish Folk said:

Ok. The brighter, longer-finned Apisto is definitely a male. The smaller one is likely a female. There's the possibility as Robert says that it's a "sneaker male." But that's tricky to tell. If it is a male and female, sometimes they just do not pair up. 

It looks like they're in a 10-gal tall aquarium. If it were us, we'd separate them -- move the (assumed) female out to a sand-bottom 20 gal. long, and get her really well adjusted. Some leaf litter is nice, along with a well-planted tank. The apisto caves are good, but many pistols like really small holes. Sometimes we jam a rock close to the hole to close it off. Feed her really well on quality foods. After all is well -- about a month -- bring the male over and see if he takes to her then. 

It’s a 20g tall! I’d consider my tank to be moderately planted, but no leaf litter. I’ll look into that. Same thing with the houses, I’ll look into some with tiny holes (like the ones from the co-op, this one is from my LFS). There’s a coconut behind the wood too. 

[Fish Folk]

Here are some random photos pulled from google search of Apisto breeding set ups. Note the presence of leaves -- Oak leaves, Catappa leaves. 

[Fish Folk]

2 minutes ago, KyleKVK said:

It’s a 20g tall! I’d consider my tank to be moderately planted, but no leaf litter

Nice looking tank! Good plan with two caves. Sounds like you're doing things right, really. Probably just need to try out another gal on this fella . . .

[FrostiesFishes]

A little late to the party but I think they’re both males, typically that purple stripe on the back is a sign of a male, and you’ll see that much earlier then the typically color change and large fins of a male. But I had a pair spawn like crazy for two months, moved them into a larger tank and it stopped. And they haven’t spawned for me in months at this point. So if you did in fact have a pair. They may just be stubborn. A lot of times the biometric pressure and the amount of time the light is on also can effect them.  I’d try some cold water changes maybe shorten the lights on time, you could also use a mirror to try and stimulate the male. I’ve heard of this working from lots of research but it hasn't done me any good yet. And lastly let me start by saying I do not recommend it unless you’re on the more experienced side. But You can allow the water level to drop and the water quality to go down and then do a water change. I know this tactic has been known to work by some well known breeders. 

[KyleKVK]

20 minutes ago, FrostiesFishes said:

A little late to the party but I think they’re both males, typically that purple stripe on the back is a sign of a male, and you’ll see that much earlier then the typically color change and large fins of a male. But I had a pair spawn like crazy for two months, moved them into a larger tank and it stopped. And they haven’t spawned for me in months at this point. So if you did in fact have a pair. They may just be stubborn. A lot of times the biometric pressure and the amount of time the light is on also can effect them.  I’d try some cold water changes maybe shorten the lights on time, you could also use a mirror to try and stimulate the male. I’ve heard of this working from lots of research but it hasn't done me any good yet. And lastly let me start by saying I do not recommend it unless you’re on the more experienced side. But You can allow the water level to drop and the water quality to go down and then do a water change. I know this tactic has been known to work by some well known breeders. 

Oh my goodness, I’ve never noticed that every other female I’ve ever seen didn’t have that purple stripe. You’re probably right, my female is a sneaker male

Edited January 13, 2021 by KyleKVK

[FrostiesFishes]

You could try and separate them if possible and put a mirror in front of the sneaker male and see how he/she reacts. Only use the mirror for a short time and you’ll know what I’m talking about when you see it. But I think you have two males but I’m no expert.