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Can Northerners Explain Ice to a Southerner?


Daniel
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Cherry shrimp seem to do just fine under ice. Yesterday it was 18°F in the morning and a couple of inches of ice had formed on the cherry shrimp pond.

I went out and broke a hole through the ice to harvest some shrimp and I noticed there were definitely two kinds of ice.

One had formed with round trapped bubbles.

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And the other kind had formed with long linear bubbles.

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How does air get trapped in ice? And what causes one kind to form instead of the other?

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the main consideration in different types of ice, is how fast it freezes. especially if you look at a larger body of water like a lake, there's good clear hard ice, then white ice that froze slow and had snow in it, then blue ice, and black ice, both of which a smart person doesnt walk on unless he likes to get wet.

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I found this on StackExchange:

 

"As water freezes, zones of ice and zones of water form. On the scale of a bubble, the interface might well be a plane. 

As the water cools, dissolved gasses form bubbles. A bubble can be engulfed as the interface advances past it. 

As ice freezes more gas comes out of solution. The bubble grows. The part that has been engulfed cannot expand. So the bubble becomes elongated.

The spherical bubbles were likely engulfed late, after all the gas had moved into bubbles."

 

Edited by Streetwise
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9 minutes ago, demicent said:

Ice is a mystery to me.  I left a plastic tub lid on the patio a few days ago, and overnight this happened.  I don't know what would make it grow UP.

 

Is there an overhang or anything over the bucket? Water dropping on it will freeze up, though that is generally wider. Kind of like an upside down icicle. 

Could also be trapped gasses forcing water up, I think.

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Just gotta say as a former North Carolinian who moved to Vermont, ice means 18" of hard-packed snow that sits in my yard until the middle of May. Ice means it's pitch black outside at 4:00 PM. And ice means driving down an interstate that I cannot see the edges of with trucks passing me at 60 MPH in the dark.

Yes, that has nothing to do with shrimp, but I used to be a Southerner and you asked about ice.

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I lived in upstate NY (Albany region) for 25 years. I never saw bubbles in ice, but ice jams in the spring in rivers and streams (the Hudson always has issues) make for interesting piles of very large, log-shaped shards that pile up in certain bends in the river and can stall the water's normal movement.  They can be dangerous if they break free in a warm spell, causing flash floods in vulnerable areas. It is amazing fish can survive in those conditions!

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1 hour ago, demicent said:

Ice is a mystery to me.  I left a plastic tub lid on the patio a few days ago, and overnight this happened.  I don't know what would make it grow UP.

Christmas Ice.jpg

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I would assume this spike is caused by what usually causes ice spikes in ice cubes. Basically the ice is formed on the edge of the container first and since water expands when it turns to ice this causes the pressure to rise inside the water. Then the water slowly "shoots" out of the top and freezes causing the spike.

Here's a 4 min video explaining it better. 

 

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I live in The midwest of Illinois 20 miles east of the Big Muddy that separates Illinois from Iowa.  Being slap dab in the middle of the country we get the best of both worlds We get super cold in the winter and stupid hot in the summer.  They saying in these parts is if you dont like the weather wait 4 hrs and it will change!Current temp is 34* And starting to spit sleet and snow. May make for an interesting ride to work in the AM

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Ice is really powerful and can be very unpredictable if you aren't being safe. Ice that freezes at different temps will react to changes in temp differently. For example if the lake freezes at 30 degrees and the temp drops 20 degrees the ice will get more and more brittle and will begin to brake up. If you are fishing out on the lake and the temps drop you could get stranded in the middle of the lake.

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Just now, ADMWNDSR83

All I know is it takes some kind of fancy device that shakes the water while freezing or something to get that perfectly clear ice with no bubbles, since it shakes all the bubbles out.  Water, vapor, and ice are all very odd birds indeed.

Put your water in a small cooler then in the freezer with no lid. Waalaa clear ice. Now break that nice clear ice into pieces and put in a short glass.

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9 hours ago, ADMWNDSR83 said:

All I know is it takes some kind of fancy device that shakes the water while freezing or something to get that perfectly clear ice with no bubbles, since it shakes all the bubbles out.  Water, vapor, and ice are all very odd birds indeed.

Distilled water will make perfectly clear ice. There is an ice manufacturer where I grew up that makes the big blocks that are used in ice carving and they use distilled water to make the big blocks perfectly clear. They told me that the haze or cloudiness in ice is the impurities. 

As someone pointed out earlier, ice will form on the outer edges first, then push the center upwards. If anyone here is in a northern climate and owns a swimming pool, they probably know about putting a inner tube or air pillow in the middle of their pool when they close it down for the winter, the ice will push against the innertube in the center instead of pushing against the pool walls.

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11 hours ago, Paul said:

As a retired UPS driver ifrom northern NJ I’ve experienced more than my share of ice & snow. As I now live in SE NC I don’t miss cleaning up, walking or driving in ice or snow.

I don't miss the cold or ice either! After 7 years in Michigan and 25 years in upstate NY, I am now in relatively temperate Maryland. Many southerners might think of Maryland as north with a lot of cold, but every time it gets cold here I remind myself that it is probably 10-30 degrees colder where I came from. The increased summer heat is what I haven't yet adjusted to, even after 6 years. I do miss the beautiful summers and falls in New York - the farm stands and farm festivals everywhere, apple cider donuts fried moments before you eat them. Mmmmm. Beautiful mountains and lakes (Lake George, omg). But last week they got 3+ feet of snow, and we got 3" here. If you've never lived through a large snowstorm, I can say you go through days and days of windy, bitterly freezing cold cleanup, because the temp always seemed to plummet after a storm. If the power goes out, that can be big, big trouble (freezing pipes). I had a power outrage for 2 days once. My kids stayed at their father's house, and I roughed it with blankets and coats. Anyone around there with an aquarium without a generator would have been in trouble. No place to park and worse, no shoulder on the roads, because plowed snow is everywhere. You can't see ditches either, until your car falls 4-5 feet into one. You almost slip and fall on icy spots about 10 times a day. And it is very bad for depression. I'm glad I moved south!!

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22 hours ago, lefty o said:

the main consideration in different types of ice, is how fast it freezes. especially if you look at a larger body of water like a lake, there's good clear hard ice, then white ice that froze slow and had snow in it, then blue ice, and black ice, both of which a smart person doesnt walk on unless he likes to get wet.

I agree 100%.

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