Are the blue neo's more sensitive?

[Kat_Rigel]

I have been keeping red cherry shrimp (as in, neocaridinia which are RED,) and have had some success in about 3 different setups. I really like the blue dream neo's, and for some reason I always fail with them! I have even tried removing the reds from their setup and putting the blues in there, but they die off after several weeks. I have tried purchasing from my LFS, from local breeders (twice!) and I'm currently on my fourth try with these buggers (thank goodness the LFS gives me trade in credit for my snails and fish!) I always drip acclimate over hours, ensure temperatures are the same, etc. They don't die right off the bat so I don't think its an acclimation issue, as I've had no problem doing the same process with the reds.

Has anyone else found certain neo colors to be more sensitive? I'll get the hang of it eventually, just wondering if others have the same experience or if I'm unlucky or not setting myself up for success.

[Streetwise]

I have a pair of identical Neocaridina-only aquariums, and the reds seem to do better than the blues. I have yellows in a community tank, and they are also strong.

I have mixed Neos in other tanks that do very well, but I haven’t counted the numbers of each color variant that went in, or are there now.

My sample size is small.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Streetwise

[JettsPapa]

I can't tell any difference in hardiness between my reds and blues.

[Pearl]

 I asked a shrimp breeder a similar question once, and they told me that the more selectively bred a variety of shrimp is the less tolerant they are of different or changing conditions, and that adult shrimp in general can have a harder time acclimating to new parameters than juvies. 
Maybe their failure to thrive could have been some combination of genetics, the shrimps possibly being older, and your water parameters being too different from what they were raised in? That would be my guess at least.  Maybe try to find a seller who raises their blue neos in similar parameters to your tanks.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Pearl
rephrasing a little

[Kat_Rigel]

21 minutes ago, Pearl said:

they told me that the more selectively bred a variety of shrimp is the less tolerant they are of different or changing conditions,

This was my guess as well. Since the reds are more common, I'm guessing they required less selective breeding (when starting from wild type) than the blues or other colors.

As far as water parameters, I have purchased from local breeders and checked their water parameters (as well as asked them) and they are pretty darn close to mine. So not sure what the issue is. And "failure to thrive" is EXACTLY the correct term- like, they're hanging in there, but not for too long.

If my current try fails, I'll be taking a break on them for a while. Sometimes that's the best way to go about it.

[Pearl]

Hmm! That's really head scratchingly frustrating! I wouldn't blame you for taking a break.
Remembered I saw this a while ago and did a quick google. 

You are right, cherries were bred directly from wild types, while most of the blues are 3-4 iterations of selective breeding away from the wild type.  

Also, sorry for jumping in your thread with unsolicited advice and not actually really responding to what you were asking for. I've not had a lot of luck with neos in general, and I really like the look of blue shrimp too. If I try again with neos I will probably get blue pearls myself. From what I've read they are just as hardy as cherries, they are just a little bit smaller and their breeding cycle is slower than cherries.

Best of luck with the current batch!

[Andy's Fish Den]

I keep both along with other color varieties of Neocaridina and have no issues myself. But, I have had a few people that I have sold shrimp to have problems with the blues that I have sold them. I've sold a lot of shrimp over the last several years, an fit hasn't been every batch, but it has had me wonder at times, especially when it is someone that has also gotten one or two other varieties as well. I had one gentleman buy a "Skittles" group of shrimp from me and for some reason, he lost the three blue ones that were in the group, but none of the other colors. It's just weird sometimes how things are.

[FishyThoughts]

I have only kept blue dream shrimp, so can’t speak toward the hardiness of them compared to reds.
Like Pearl mentioned, my LFS stopped selling adults of all their shrimp because they adults struggle more with changes. So they only sell the young juvenile shrimp and have had better success of customers not calling about them dying. This problem could also be contributed to inbreeding. If the shrimp are breeding faster than the LFS sells them, they’re not likely ordering more and getting a healthy mix of that strain. 
You could try getting the young juveniles, or a buried female and see if they hatch before she dies and the new babies survive. 

[Kat_Rigel]

4 hours ago, Pearl said:

Hmm! That's really head scratchingly frustrating! I wouldn't blame you for taking a break.
Remembered I saw this a while ago and did a quick google. 

You are right, cherries were bred directly from wild types, while most of the blues are 3-4 iterations of selective breeding away from the wild type.  

Also, sorry for jumping in your thread with unsolicited advice and not actually really responding to what you were asking for. I've not had a lot of luck with neos in general, and I really like the look of blue shrimp too. If I try again with neos I will probably get blue pearls myself. From what I've read they are just as hardy as cherries, they are just a little bit smaller and their breeding cycle is slower than cherries.

Best of luck with the current batch!

This is a super interesting graphic! Thank you for sharing! 

[Wes L.]

Do you know what your water parameters are for the PH and GH? I have been having the exact opposite issue. I have a hard water tank with Blue Dreams and they are breeding out of control. I have another soft water tank, which is stocked with yellow and red cherries, and they have never reproduced. I'm trying to figure out....despite lots of things I've read and watched.....if maybe they don't thrive as well in softer water as lots of people claim?

[JettsPapa]

1 hour ago, Wes L. said:

. . . I have another soft water tank, which is stocked with yellow and red cherries, and they have never reproduced. I'm trying to figure out....despite lots of things I've read and watched.....if maybe they don't thrive as well in softer water as lots of people claim?

 

I've never seen those claims that neocaridina shrimp thrive in soft water.  Everything I've seen says they prefer moderately hard water and high pH.

Caridina shrimp, on the other hand, need softer water and lower pH.  Maybe that's what you were thinking of?

[Alesha]

Great thread, @Kat_Rigel. I've experienced the same thing. We've purchased blue shrimp twice now from a very reputable fish farm. Can't seem to keep them alive!

We've also purchased skittles groups. The reds do ok. The yellow die out quickly. The snowballs reproduce slowly. And the brownish ones are super prolific!

Recent, after several months, we are seeing some blue babies again! I'm pulling them when I see them & adding them to the new sparkling gourami tank. I'm hoping maybe they will do better with no competition.

[Kat_Rigel]

3 hours ago, JettsPapa said:

 

I've never seen those claims that neocaridina shrimp thrive in soft water.  Everything I've seen says they prefer moderately hard water and high pH.

Caridina shrimp, on the other hand, need softer water and lower pH.  Maybe that's what you were thinking of?

@Wes L., I agree with @JettsPapa- I had always heard that the neos prefer hard water while the caridinias prefer soft water.

My water parameters are approximately as follows for the neo tank: pH 7.3, TDS 473, GH 12, KH 6. Ammonia, nitrite are zero, nitrate at 20ppm. Again, the reds did fine and the blues did not, so... 🤷‍♀️ So far I have at least 4, so we'll see how it goes. I dont have space right now, but in the future I would like to just set up a big 20gal long with a matten filter.

[Wes L.]

@Kat_Rigel& @JettsPapa, I'm as baffled as anyone with all these water hardness claims, but I am definitely talking about neocaridinas. And all the water parameters I am referring to are from on-line shrimp breeders. They're all over the board. I won't post the names of the web sites here since I know that's not allowed, but one shrimp seller I'm looking at says the hardness should be between 7 and 15. Another on-line shrimp seller is claiming neocaridinas are fine in hardness from 5 to 12. Another is saying 6 to 8, another 6 to 12, another 4 to 12, and yet another is 7 to 8 dGH. And still another lists the hardness as "soft-hard"....I know, not much help there. If you google Neocaridinas for sale and glance through the sites, you'll see what I'm talking about. From my experience, my tank with 13dGH is rocking....and not one shrimp breeder lists 13 dGH as acceptable. My Blue Dreams are breeding like crazy. Yet I have another tank that's 7dGH with double the amount of shrimp, and no babies whatsoever. So I've become a doubting Thomas with the sites saying 5 to 8 dGH is fine....I'm not seeing it. I've been really trying to get to the bottom of what the ideal conditions really are, and so far not much luck. I also love the web sites that say shrimp can "tolerate" a wide range of parameters. I could tolerate getting hit in the head with a big stick everyday, but doesn't mean it's good for me in the long term. The other confusing thing is how people categorize "hard" water. Some places say 7 to 8 dGH is hard....and to me that's medium. I live in Las Vegas and our tap water is 15 dGH...now that to me is hard. I call my 7dGH tank my soft water tank....because compared to our tap water, that is soft. So basically that's why I was questioning your water hardness. I'm so curious to hear the water hardness that people are truly having success with, and water hardness that people are struggling with.

[JettsPapa]

I haven't tested my hardness, but I have a water softener that removes some of it.  It's the type that takes the canister that you replace twice per year instead of the one that uses salt.  There's still enough to leave rings at the top of the tanks, and it also leaves deposits where it splashes onto glass lids.

I do know that my neos are thriving in my 8.2 pH water.

[shkote]

My tap runs anywhere from around 300 ppm and I've seen it as high as 500 ppm (18-30dGH) I most definitely have hard water.  My shrimp have always multiplied like rabbits. I've never had any issues with specific color morphs. I've seen websites and other forums advise people to use RO and distilled water to soften theirs for Neocaridina because it was "too hard" and I could never understand it. I've kept Neocaridina shrimp in approximately the same water parameters for about a decade without issues. I have brought in shrimp from very different water parameters over the years and they have for the most part always acclimated to my water without issues as well.

[Andy's Fish Den]

I have well water so mine varies throughout the year, but mine is usually between 15-20dGH and neos go crazy in my tanks. I don't treat the water that is going in their tanks with anything, only do a 25% water change once every other week. 

[Streetwise]

I am starting to think that the variation I saw in mine was just luck of the batch, especially when buying locally in small numbers, since I have no idea where they came from. My most recent try with some blues is doing a little better. I think I need to start buying larger quantities when starting new colonies.

Nerms, how many shrimp do you like to buy at once when starting a colony?

Edited December 28, 2020 by Streetwise

[JettsPapa]

1 hour ago, Streetwise said:

. . . Nerms, how many shrimp do you like to buy at once when starting a colony?

I've often seen 10 recommended to start a colony.  That's enough that you should get a mix of sexes, but of course if you're impatient, and your budget will stand it, then more is an option.

[Kat_Rigel]

4 minutes ago, JettsPapa said:

I've often seen 10 recommended to start a colony.  That's enough that you should get a mix of sexes, but of course if you're impatient, and your budget will stand it, then more is an option.

Agreed, 10 at the minimum, more of I can.