Endler Livebearer Tank Ratio

[ChemBob]

I recently set up a 20 gallon tank with Endlers and Blue Neocardina shrimp. I bought the endlers as a group on aquabid with 2 males and 4 females with a few fry. Most of the fry have grown out to be males. It looks like the males are starting to gang up a but on the females, so I guess my QT tank will be getting a population of males while I figure out what to do with them. I have 2 questions.

First, how often should I pull males to maintain the proper male to female ratio? I am planning to pull some out tomorrow to balance the ratio. 

Second, is there a set if conditions I can maintain to help favor a higher ratio of females to males? I've seen some internet articles that suggest cooler temperatures will cause a higher female ratio while higher temperatures will favor males. Does anyone have any practical experience with controlling the male to female ratio of Endlers?

[lefty o]

hate to be sexist, but i'd pull the females in order to control the population. as far as ratio's go, it is best if there are 2 or 3 females to every male, otherwise the males will chase them to death. especially if you have like multiple more males than females.

[shkote]

I don't keep a specific ratio with any of my livebearers. Maybe this should be posted in the "Confessions of a Bad Aquarist" thread instead. 🤭

They may start out as pairs or trios, but after awhile, they kind of end up however they end up. I've never had issues with overly stressed females due to chasing. I think lots of plant cover helps too. 

I don't really believe that cooler temperatures produce more females. I think cooler temperatures may cause delayed sexing though, causing them to appear female for much longer as temperature can control growth rate. I keep my livebearer tanks unheated and seasonal and have noticed a lot more sleeper/sneaker males in cooler temperatures, but still males nonetheless. 

[ChemBob]

6 hours ago, lefty o said:

hate to be sexist, but i'd pull the females in order to control the population. as far as ratio's go, it is best if there are 2 or 3 females to every male, otherwise the males will chase them to death. especially if you have like multiple more males than females.

Lefty, my goal is not population control, rather trying to provide optimal conditions for a healthy population by pulling males to keep them from overtaking the females in numbers, to maintain the 2 to 3 females to 1 male ratio. How often do you do a rough count of males to females? Or will it be pretty obvious when I need to rebalance the ratio? If overall population becomes an issue, I will pull both males and females. Thanks! 

[lefty o]

20 minutes ago, ChemBob said:

Lefty, my goal is not population control, rather trying to provide optimal conditions for a healthy population by pulling males to keep them from overtaking the females in numbers, to maintain the 2 to 3 females to 1 male ratio. How often do you do a rough count of males to females? Or will it be pretty obvious when I need to rebalance the ratio? If overall population becomes an issue, I will pull both males and females. Thanks! 

the 2 or 3 females to each male is for small populations. once you get a bunch going the females seem to be able to get away when they want.

[Alesha]

You will get to a point that you simply won't be able to keep count.

That's the point at which you start thinking about rehoming, selling and/or dividing the hoard up into multiple tanks. We started with 14 guppies/endlers and ended up with hundreds in less than a year. It was exponential! We now have a 40-gallon pond and a 20-gallon tank out on our front porch where we keep most of them. And they're still having babies out there too. (We're in FL, so it's not too cold for them.) 

So...for breeding purposes, you can try to keep count by removing the ones you want to breed in the proper proportion of males to females. But for just fish-keeping purposes, there comes a time when you will no longer be able to count them. It's the fun part of livebearers!!!😄

[shkote]

@Alesha yep exactly. One day you walk by your mixed guppy/mixed livebearer tank and see a color you don't really recognize and go "Oh hey cool, where'd you come from? I don't think I've seen you before" or they seemed to have doubled again within a week or twos time and you scratch your head because at this point you think they're just teleporting their way into your tank somehow.  They're a lot of fun 😄

[Alesha]

2 minutes ago, Lynze said:

you scratch your head because at this point you think they're just teleporting their way into your tank somehow.

Teleporting...through @Harpsandfish's Stargate, no doubt!!!