Help building a nice African Cichlids tank.

[Jhenderson]

let me start by saying I am fairly new to the hobby. a little over a year ago I got a 10 gal. with a betta and a couple snails. a few months later I bought a 30 gal. bow tank with some glow fish, a Betta, 6 Neon Tetras, and a few snails.  I have been doing really well with those 2 tanks so now I am ready to graduate again. As the title says, I have decided I want to do a Cichlid Community tank. as of now , I already bought a 75gal Aqueon tank. Also, I bought a Fluval FX4 for my filter. I had just ordered 60 pounds of CaribSea Aquatics eco-Complete African Cichlids black sand. I am still looking for a heater. I was considering a fluval 300w e series. all ariticals I have read on them seem great but I am having trouble finding one. it seems a lot of places don't carry the E series. now,I'm wondering why? Are they not as good as they first appeared? OK... so my first main question is... should I buy a rain bar? I do plan on using all live plants. My next question I would like to have Cory McElroy answer if h happens to see this.... as I said I want Africans. The thig is I want to do it in a community tank. Im thinking a Plecco to help with Maitainence. I would also like to have atleast 2 red tail sharks, a couple rainbow fish or a small school of Tiger barbs (maybe 6 or 7). then the Cichlids I was thinking about were the electric yellow and electric blue. how many of each color cichlid should I get in a set up as I described.

[FrozenFins]

African Cichlids in a communtiy tank isn't gonna work well. This is a fish where you can't just decide to add  a new fish one day. You have to get multiple so the cichlids won't put all of their agression on that one fish.

You can do south american cichlids in a community tank but not african cichlids.

Edited December 11, 2020 by James Black

[FrozenFins]

I'll tag @Cory for ya 

[penguinexdeus]

I'm looking into building an african tank also. So i'll add a few of my questions in rather than start a new topic:

I know there's various types (like shell dwellers, peacocks, etc..) but everything i see online uses the scientific name and the local stores only have "assorted africans".  Wondering how to know what i get and what 'types' of africans can go together.

Also are there any that i could have a half dozen or so in a 30 gallon (spare tank right now)

[Cory]

A bristlenose can work. I'd be careful mixing all those species if you're newer to the hobby. It can all be done, but there is a learning curve to different aspects to the hobby. Multiple retail and rainbow sharks typically will cause fighting. 

[Larrimore]

Look at my reply to the 90 gallon cichlid tank question.  Look at the eheim 300 watt heater at petsmart if you have one close.  It's on sale for $30.  I would drop all the other fish except maybe a bristle nose or two and look at various mbuna.  Mixed Africa.cichlids usually means they are "mutts" so their not sure what they are.  Like I said in the other post, I have yellow labs, yellow tail acei, and rusty cichlids and they do great together.  They will munch some plants though.

[Cory]

Oh, I should address the e series heaters as well. Lots of people stopped carrying them, including us when fluval was out for a year. 

[Larrimore]

And, if you get a good group, they will give you all the "community" you could want.  They never sit still.

[Jhenderson]

@CoryThank you for the fast reply and the help. funny story. I told my girlfriend I started listening to this aquarium co-op podcast and I played some for her. shes like that's great, so your really starting to get into this hobby? I say yeah, the only other guy I can find I like is this guy on youtube. I play her a clip of that guy and she says, babe, that's the same guy. look it says aquarium co op. lol. anyway, should I get a spray bar? Also, If I do just blue and yellows with 2 redtails. How many blue and how many yellow? I listened to your podcast where you explained it like a family in a crowded hotel so I understand why overcrowding works. im just still not sure on the numbers. Also should I put the red tails in first, then a few weeks later the yellows, then the blues a few more weeks later?

[FrozenFins]

18 hours ago, penguinexdeus said:

I'm looking into building an african tank also. So i'll add a few of my questions in rather than start a new topic:

I know there's various types (like shell dwellers, peacocks, etc..) but everything i see online uses the scientific name and the local stores only have "assorted africans".  Wondering how to know what i get and what 'types' of africans can go together.

Also are there any that i could have a half dozen or so in a 30 gallon (spare tank right now)

The only few african cichlids that can go in a 30 gallon would be something like a Yellow Lab and other smaller mbunas. Also shell dwellers would do well

[Nataku]

@Jhenderson you mention wanting plants in an African cichlid tank, but then mention fish from lake Malawi. These fish love to munch on plants. So, sad to say, you will have a very, very hard time keeping plants going if you go with those fish. I've done it - as Cory says 'anything can be done' and he's  right BUT it requires a lot of extra work. I was one of those hard headed ones who said 'sure it can be done!' ... I kept a tank of mbuna with plants, and the only way to get them to leave the Amazon swords, anubias and the valisneria alone (and alone is still a relative term) was by keeping a ton of dwarf salvinia, hornwort and guppy grass in the tank. I grew those other three plants in other tanks and added them by the handful several times a week to the mbuna tank. Where they were promptly consumed. I suppose the mbuna considered these more appetizing plants, and so they ate them first. But if I didn't keep a suppymof these other floating plants in there for them to munch on? You'd  see bites in the leaves of the swords and anubias real fast. And they just would start  at the tip of the valisneria leaves and start snacking down on them. My valisneria didn't stay long and trailing across the top of the tank with mbuna in there. They kept those vals trimmed. So, can it be done? Sure. Is it a ton of work and probably more effort than its worth? Yeah most likely.

 

Now, all hope is not lost to have a planted African cichlid tank! You just need to shift your focus a little. Instead of lake Malawi cichlids, look a cichlids from lake Tanganyika. Most of those are not plant destroyers. I know quite a few who, and have myself, kept lake Tang set ups with plants. Crypts, vals, anubias, bolbitis and java ferns are great, great choices for such a tank, as well as floating plants like dwarf salvinia or  frogbit (or duckweed if you really really must). Look at species like shell dwellers, julidichromis, altolamprologus,  cyprichromis and paracyprichromis.  These are all species that could work in a planted 75 that are lake Tang cichlids.

 

@penguinexdeus you could do a lake Tang tank with shelldwellers like multifasciatus or similis, and a julidichromis species like j. Transcriptus as they will be a smaller species of juli.  Have a big sandy area, and then a nice rocks stack with some height to it so each species will have the area they desire to live in. If you want plants, either get a well established bed of crypts first before adding shellies, or stick with rhizome plants like anubias and java fern stuck in the rocks.

[Grey]

Hello!
Rather than starting a new thread I thought I’d pick y’alls’ brains.
I have a 55g that I had a vision of an ocean feel, with seaweed looking Apongetons and a single peacock cichlid. Everything I’ve seen talks about getting the right balance of Africans and overstocking, but what about understocking?

1) Is there any reason I shouldn't have one African cichlid and like an upside down catfish?
2) What would you suggest for my tank—In pic? 
(ignore the spiderwood I am letting it soak for a 10g)

Some background...

I am very new to the hobby, I have bettas,  platties, and some kuhli loaches—who are a lot of fun—in 10g, 5g, and 3g tanks. But, my mom had 3 fancy goldfish and one super personable Oscar, who l adored, the whole time I was growing up. These fish lived for almost two decades and moved with us across three states. I’d love to have a really personable cichlid again that I can raise in the 55g.
I’ve hesitated to get an Oscar as they seem to need a 75g and I’d like something that could happily live 15+ years in the 55g.

Edited December 16, 2020 by Grey
Spelling...

[Nataku]

@Grey

You could keep just a single specimen of an African cichlid in a tank. Just be aware that with peacocks, the answer is basically 1, 1 male and several females, or many and all different species. And this is because of agression levels. You have to spread the agression across many fish. With just a couple, the strongest will pick out one fish it particularly hates, and beat them up until they kill it. And then they'll  pick the next fish that looked at them wrong and start all over. With overstocked african cichlids, they have a much harder time being able to focus on 'just that one particular hated mortal enemy' and instead can only grump at one fish, it moves, and if they give chase they tend to quickly lose it in the swarm of other cichlids. 

Which type of catfish? There's alot that get called upside down catfish. Synodontis petricola or s. lucipinnis will stay small (4" or so), and are social and would appreciate a group of their own kind. If you wanted just a single catfish (that's  also pretty personable when it gets larger) get something like synodontis eupterus. They don't  like sharing space with their own kind, but are fine with non-catfish. And they can become more outgoing and willing to hand feed when larger.

[Fish Folk]

Here’s how we set up ours... pothos in hob...

 

 

[Fishmonger_X]

Do you want Mbunas or Haps and Peacocks? is rule one as far as I'm concerned.... also, sorry I didn't read all the previous replies.

[Grey]

 

@Fishmonger_X I am particular to the OB Peacocks and adult Yellow Labs—once they have black. Do you think one peacock would ok by himself?

@Nataku I’m not sure which kind of cat-fish. I was watching a video and we saw this giant derpy catfish swimming upside down, and googled that sentence.

The synodontis eupterus is crazy looking!

For you other two catfish recommendations, any concern the a peacock will eat them? Or the will breed? Not sure I really want babies at this stage in my hobby 😄 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Grey

[Grey]

@Fish Folk I like your pothos! That is just behind the sponge/filter? I’ve always been afraid the roots will get into the motor.

What kind of rock is that? I wanted a large white “hiding” stone, but I can only find live reef rock near me.

[Mr. Ed's Aquatics]

I kinda specialize in African cichlids and can answer a few of your questions. 

Yes, get a spraybar return. All my large African cichlid display tanks have these and the fish like the flow and the oxygen exchange is super helpful for typically overstocked tanks.

As for the plecos, I have good luck with BIG species like commons, sailfish, and royals. Horrible luck with SMALL species like bristlenose, clown or rubberlips. Africans are too nippy for smaller plecos in my experience. 

For your other fish ideas, like Cory said, the tank is too small for more than 1 rainbow / redtail shark. One will do fine with mbuna though, so try to get it at the same time and have it grow out with the cichlids. Rainbows and Barbs are a really bad idea,  really any community dither fish is not going to work. Maybe consider clown loaches or synadontis catfish if you want something other than the cichlids. (Again, grow them out together if you're going to try them,  don't add them later as adults to an existing setup)

For everyone saying that you can't do plants with Malawi cichlids,  I'd say yes and no. You can't just plant it with whatever you want, but there are many types that either the cichlids don't eat, or that still grow fast enough to thrive and provide a snack. 

Many plants like Anubias, Java Ferns, Valisineria grasses, Hornwort, etc will work just fine. 

As far as the age old question of how many fish.... it's going to depend on how much you feed them, how often you want to do water changes, etc. I would suggest between 20-30 honestly. Less and you're in for fish picking on specific fish and deaths... more and the water is going to be toxic. 

As far as heaters, I have Hygger 300 watts for mine and they work well..

Hope that's helpful  

[LaurieinIA]

I have a “new” African cichlid tank... set up in August.  I’m new to the hobby, but felt like I got thru the initial cycling, etc without getting too frustrated. I expected some fish loss as I learned, But... I’m thinking of throwing in the towel.

Somewhere along the line I guess I ended up with a bully.  After a large handful of obvious and/or suspected murders, I pulled the killer and replaced the lost fish.  The “bully cycle” started again shortly after. More observation led me to believe I may have traded out the wrong fish. I put the new “problem fish” into a basket rigged into the aquarium for a couple of weeks as I decided how to proceed.  Still lost 1, maybe 2, during that time but thought I’d see it the “time out” helped.  I released that fish and the murders picked up again, so now he’s gone, too. 

Unfortunately, I’ve lost 2 more since then.  One might have been a freak accident due to a falling rock and getting stuck between decor and the glass, but the other was completely out of the blue today.

Water tests always come out good. No signs of health issues... the one that I found dead today seemed perfectly happy this morning.  He’s my 3rd death in exactly 3 weeks... 

I was advised to keep 16-20 fish in my aquarium. I’m now down to 12, but I’m hesitant to buy more since, overall, I’ve lost more fish than I’d like to admit.  Partially from the learning curve, partially from whatever is killing them.  

Any ideas?  Or should I have thrown in the towel a long time ago?

I’d like to keep it going, but not if I’m going to go broke replacing dead fish.  It’s not like these are 50 cents a piece