Rosy Barb Fry Breeding

[WhitecloudDynasty]

This male is a bit short but he have very strong black marking, plus a black belly...maybe worth working with? Lol

 

[Anton]

On 2/4/2022 at 1:26 PM, WhitecloudDynasty said:

This male is a bit short but he have very strong black marking, plus a black belly...maybe worth working with? Lol

 

 

Definately. Send him to me otherwise lol. Put him with the short tailed goldie females. Net a few babies repeat then backcross. How do you maintain vigour, is the Hawaii one the outcross?

[WhitecloudDynasty]

On 2/4/2022 at 1:12 AM, Anton said:

Definately. Send him to me otherwise lol. Put him with the short tailed goldie females. Net a few babies repeat then backcross. How do you maintain vigour, is the Hawaii one the outcross?

Culling hard should keep them vigor, quality food and lots of exercise also. Hawaii stock will be the first out cross I do, they are long but aren’t wide enough. 

[Anton]

On 2/4/2022 at 3:15 PM, WhitecloudDynasty said:

Culling hard should keep them vigor, quality food and lots of exercise also. Hawaii stock will be the first out cross I do, they are long but aren’t wide enough. 

Yah IMO to keep the line vigorous you need outcrosses. So many guppies for example have become so weak and difficult to keep because of "strict" line breeding. A couple of outcross lines fixes that problem occuring. Guppies were one of the easiest fish to keep. Not so much anymore sadly. I bought a few lines of very nice looking guppies but all failed to thrive, while feral populations live in ditches here just fine. 

[WhitecloudDynasty]

On 2/4/2022 at 11:40 PM, Anton said:

Yah IMO to keep the line vigorous you need outcrosses. So many guppies for example have become so weak and difficult to keep because of "strict" line breeding. A couple of outcross lines fixes that problem occuring. Guppies were one of the easiest fish to keep. Not so much anymore sadly. I bought a few lines of very nice looking guppies but all failed to thrive, while feral populations live in ditches here just fine. 

Well that true but if you cross them back to similar family of guppy..they could be related, or even have the same problem as your own family. How to cull properly helps alot. If you notice most people start with breeding pair from the same breeder, most likely brother/sister. Most strain of guppies come from very few true breeder, then gets pass around and when everyone have them and bred their own. They become super inbred of the same genetics with diffent people/breeder. That's now new strain of guppy flood our market so fast. That's one reason I'm taking my golden longfin white cloud slow and widen the gene pool as much as possible. If I sell someone a pair, most likely they will just spawn them together instead of crossing them out. That's 1 reason I sell just males, it forces them to cross that fish out. Unless I personally sent them a breeding pair, then I would have made sure to pick the best pair genetically. 

Edited February 5, 2022 by WhitecloudDynasty

[Anton]

On 2/5/2022 at 1:53 PM, WhitecloudDynasty said:

........That's one reason I'm taking my golden longfin white cloud slow and widen the gene pool as much as possible......

Good idea. I've never kept white clouds. They're meant to be nice and easy, maybe I will try in the spring. Are long tailed white clouds rare?

This is one of the long tail Rosies I  bought, I assume female because she is olive gold on the back. This one hasn't got the longest tail in the batch but I like it. If I could draw a line from tail tip tp tail tip and fill it in I would be very pleased with the lengh as is. It will grow much longer as she gets older anyway. I think body wise they're good the peduncle is nice and sturdy too.

 

[WhitecloudDynasty]

On 2/5/2022 at 3:26 AM, Anton said:

Good idea. I've never kept white clouds. They're meant to be nice and easy, maybe I will try in the spring. Are long tailed white clouds rare?

This is one of the long tail Rosies I  bought, I assume female because she is olive gold on the back. This one hasn't got the longest tail in the batch but I like it. If I could draw a line from tail tip tp tail tip and fill it in I would be very pleased with the lengh as is. It will grow much longer as she gets older anyway. I think body wise they're good the peduncle is nice and sturdy too.

 

She looks great! I love her size and color. How long is she?

Golden white cloud is rare for me atleast lol.

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

ORD, things are coming along nicely @WhitecloudDynasty. Have you started the wait list yet or will I have to wait for the Hawaiian outcrossing? Hehehe!

@Antongorgeous specimen. For a female that’s spectacular!

[WhitecloudDynasty]

On 2/5/2022 at 3:40 AM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

ORD, things are coming along nicely @WhitecloudDynasty. Have you started the wait list yet or will I have to wait for the Hawaiian outcrossing? Hehehe!

@Antongorgeous specimen. For a female that’s spectacular!

Everything I bred last year went to my lfs. The cross have already been done, just waiting for them to come into age. They mature really slow and show traits after 6 month, so I can't really go through them till then. 

I don't normally do waiting list cause I can't promise quality with this cros.. 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

ORD @WhitecloudDynastyits a bit of a joke since every time I feel like you post about the rosies or the longfin wc I ask you about buying some. I’m just a fan of your lines and enjoy watching the progress. Cheers!

[Odd Duck]

On 2/5/2022 at 9:13 AM, WhitecloudDynasty said:

Everything I bred last year went to my lfs. The cross have already been done, just waiting for them to come into age. They mature really slow and show traits after 6 month, so I can't really go through them till then. 

I don't normally do waiting list cause I can't promise quality with this cros.. 

 

On 2/5/2022 at 10:54 AM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

ORD @WhitecloudDynastyits a bit of a joke since every time I feel like you post about the rosies or the longfin wc I ask you about buying some. I’m just a fan of your lines and enjoy watching the progress. Cheers!

Same for me.  I’m following along and learning so much about breeding details, selecting the breeders, etc, that I would have never thought about!  I know a lot about what to look for in dog breeds as far as soundness, strengthening weak top line, balancing shoulders, rears, etc, but I wouldn’t have been able to put it into words everything to look for on fish.  You’ve obviously just touched on some high points and a few concerns, but I feel like I’ve learned a ton that will also carry through to other species of fish as well.

Any long tailed fish needs a good, strong, caudal penduncle!  Duh!  Why haven’t I ever thought about it in that way before?  I’ve not recently deliberately bred anything beyond my bronze cories and my pea puffers and with the exception of one boy puffer that got injured, they all looked so closely alike that it never occurred to me to say, nope, don’t breed that one.  I did select for overall vigor and appetite, made sure nobody had obvious defects, picked what I thought were the strongest, most symmetrical males and females, and probably was fine since I’m pretty sure they were wild caught with no inbreeding.  Might have been able to do better if armed with more knowledge.

I intend to breed some Betta persephones once I can get my hands on some and you can bet I will be scrutinizing them with a much more educated and sharper eye than without this discussion.  I bred Betta splendens decades ago and just picked for overall health and for color, to see if I could manage the breeding and raise the fry before I got expensive fish.  I managed it well enough to know my schedule wasn’t fluid enough then to raise splendens well, so no point in continuing to raise average fish.

My schedule will allow breeding Bettas now (especially a “peaceful” species like persephone) with help from tanks set up with loads of live food cultures already established in and out of the tanks.  And I’ll be far more ready to make a decent job of it instead of a hack job.  Not a pro, but at least a better amateur.

[WhitecloudDynasty]

On 2/5/2022 at 12:19 PM, Odd Duck said:

 

Same for me.  I’m following along and learning so much about breeding details, selecting the breeders, etc, that I would have never thought about!  I know a lot about what to look for in dog breeds as far as soundness, strengthening weak top line, balancing shoulders, rears, etc, but I wouldn’t have been able to put it into words everything to look for on fish.  You’ve obviously just touched on some high points and a few concerns, but I feel like I’ve learned a ton that will also carry through to other species of fish as well.

Any long tailed fish needs a good, strong, caudal penduncle!  Duh!  Why haven’t I ever thought about it in that way before?  I’ve not recently deliberately bred anything beyond my bronze cories and my pea puffers and with the exception of one boy puffer that got injured, they all looked so closely alike that it never occurred to me to say, nope, don’t breed that one.  I did select for overall vigor and appetite, made sure nobody had obvious defects, picked what I thought were the strongest, most symmetrical males and females, and probably was fine since I’m pretty sure they were wild caught with no inbreeding.  Might have been able to do better if armed with more knowledge.

I intend to breed some Betta persephones once I can get my hands on some and you can bet I will be scrutinizing them with a much more educated and sharper eye than without this discussion.  I bred Betta splendens decades ago and just picked for overall health and for color, to see if I could manage the breeding and raise the fry before I got expensive fish.  I managed it well enough to know my schedule wasn’t fluid enough then to raise splendens well, so no point in continuing to raise average fish.

My schedule will allow breeding Bettas now (especially a “peaceful” species like persephone) with help from tanks set up with loads of live food cultures already established in and out of the tanks.  And I’ll be far more ready to make a decent job of it instead of a hack job.  Not a pro, but at least a better amateur.

Confirmation is easy since we can see with your own eye, but health isn't. With health we can't see or tell if line breeding is changing anything inside. So only with time will tell. I have a little bit of dog and pigeon background so I see thing a bit different. Fun facts...lol there are 1100 breeds of pigeon with their own set standards. 

I'm working with Egyptian Swift Ottai

A short beak, round head, short leg, long casting flights feather, with fish scale coloring. They use this breed in pigeon war in Egypt.

As for dog I'm working with european doberman. I love their extra big bone structure and their willingness to work.

i hate to docktails and crop ear but i got use to it. Plus doberman have a very weak long tail, i seen some broke it as adult and its very painful for them.

Edited February 5, 2022 by WhitecloudDynasty

[Torrey]

I'm ORD, and @Odd Duck & @WhitecloudDynasty it appears we all learned the benefits of selective breeding that included both health and conformation via dog breeding. 

My special interest was Rottweilers, and really appreciated Juan & Nancy Griegos sharing their passion so more people in the US had an opportunity to understand why bigger isn't better as well as the responsibility we should carry if we are going to breed dogs.

I try to carry that responsibility forward with my plants and with my fish. I really appreciate Gianne for explaining betta standards, and @WhitecloudDynasty for sharing so much knowledge about WCMM. I feel a lot more confident looking for fish to purchase this summer. 

[Anton]

On 2/5/2022 at 4:37 PM, WhitecloudDynasty said:

She looks great! I love her size and color. How long is she?

Golden white cloud is rare for me atleast lol.

Aaah, I never measured but about somewhere between two and a half to three inches including tail I think.

I will look out for long tailed Snowies. I'm so unfamiliar with white clouds, I've probably seen loads but not recognised them. They should do well here as they come from the hill streams in Southern China. Could make a nice addition to my community pots outdoors. Are they good top view or do they dissapear....so many fish tend to dissapear. It's to be expected as they don't wanna be eaten LOL.

I've been using danios, a very specific mutation of the glow light jobs. Yellow like reef fish. They come from batches of the pale green finned green/yellow ones. Most of the glow-light danios look very artificial but these selected out of the batches look fantasic. You only get one or two in a consignment of hundreds if you're lucky. The guy in the shop keeps them for me. It's a brilliant all yellow, no green, even the fins & head all yellow. Bit like a platinum betta in look. 

Having some problems keeping these Rosies indoors, maybe too warm.  I didn't sex and seperated them so they're making a bit of a mess spawing every morning. One knocked itself out, stone cold, only recovering after ten minutes. Problem is males and females look a lot alike in this line at least, the males are just darker red with blacker fin tips. All are fat as a carp so that doesn't help much. 

Wonder if Vibra Bites for small fish (Hikari) have hormones in em. I bought a few days ago and they really, really like them but their bahaviour has become a bit hectic.

[WhitecloudDynasty]

On 2/5/2022 at 10:25 PM, Anton said:

Aaah, I never measured but about somewhere between two and a half to three inches including tail I think.

I will look out for long tailed Snowies. I'm so unfamiliar with white clouds, I've probably seen loads but not recognised them. They should do well here as they come from the hill streams in Southern China. Could make a nice addition to my community pots outdoors. Are they good top view or do they dissapear....so many fish tend to dissapear. It's to be expected as they don't wanna be eaten LOL.

I've been using danios, a very specific mutation of the glow light jobs. Yellow like reef fish. They come from batches of the pale green finned green/yellow ones. Most of the glow-light danios look very artificial but these selected out of the batches look fantasic. You only get one or two in a consignment of hundreds if you're lucky. The guy in the shop keeps them for me. It's a brilliant all yellow, no green, even the fins & head all yellow. Bit like a platinum betta in look. 

Having some problems keeping these Rosies indoors, maybe too warm.  I didn't sex and seperated them so they're making a bit of a mess spawing every morning. One knocked itself out, stone cold, only recovering after ten minutes. Problem is males and females look a lot alike in this line at least, the males are just darker red with blacker fin tips. All are fat as a carp so that doesn't help much. 

Wonder if Vibra Bites for small fish (Hikari) have hormones in em. I bought a few days ago and they really, really like them but their bahaviour has become a bit hectic.

Vibrant bites is a great food, I just can't personally afford that with my fishroom.

Golden white cloud would be great from topview.

[Anton]

On 2/6/2022 at 11:46 AM, WhitecloudDynasty said:

Vibrant bites is a great food, I just can't personally afford that with my fishroom.

Golden white cloud would be great from topview.

Yah they should sell this kind of thing in bulk, would be a lot cheaper. Always tiny little pots that last a few days. Tweeny pkts in this case 🙄

Edited February 8, 2022 by Anton

[WhitecloudDynasty]

Coming along nicely 

[WhitecloudDynasty]

[WhitecloudDynasty]

 

[Odd Duck]

On 7/14/2022 at 10:48 PM, WhitecloudDynasty said:

 

Those are spectacular!  Well done!

[WhitecloudDynasty]

On 5/3/2022 at 1:05 PM, WhitecloudDynasty said:

Update on him 

[WhitecloudDynasty]

Next generation coming along nicely

[Odd Duck]

I’m ORD as usual, but these barbs are just so gorgeous!!!  😍😍😍

[Anton]

Looking good, hope it's going well with your breeding programe still? 

My long finned spent the whole warm season till now outdoors and they have grown into monsters. I would say at least 4.5", very strong deep bodies. They eat and eat even now in the cool season they're incredibly active even when nights have dipped into 55%C. They had loads of daphnia and fry this warm season. I was lowering the ponds after heavy rain and some youngsters came shooting out the outlet by mistake. Little minis of the adults with very stout bodies and decent tails, vey high dorsal fins for their size LOL.

I will select Spring next year for some breeders to use with the neons, meantime I put in a very good solid red spangled neon male, not sure if he's doing his job yet. It's a bit of a random way to do things but I couldn't resist as he was such quality size and colour wise.  I will use him also in Spring for more controlled pairing. He is the one I see most of in the long finned pond because of his colour the rest are a manic ripple of water most of the time.

I love the gold high metalic females a lot. There is meant to be a yellow strain of Rosies but I don't see often, they have the red tipped dorsal but otherwise "leucisistic" not sure if that applies to fish, males slightly darker yellow.

Hope you and your fish have a very happy holiday season meantime. 

A

[WhitecloudDynasty]

On 12/8/2022 at 4:53 AM, Anton said:

Looking good, hope it's going well with your breeding programe still? 

My long finned spent the whole warm season till now outdoors and they have grown into monsters. I would say at least 4.5", very strong deep bodies. They eat and eat even now in the cool season they're incredibly active even when nights have dipped into 55%C. They had loads of daphnia and fry this warm season. I was lowering the ponds after heavy rain and some youngsters came shooting out the outlet by mistake. Little minis of the adults with very stout bodies and decent tails, vey high dorsal fins for their size LOL.

I will select Spring next year for some breeders to use with the neons, meantime I put in a very good solid red spangled neon male, not sure if he's doing his job yet. It's a bit of a random way to do things but I couldn't resist as he was such quality size and colour wise.  I will use him also in Spring for more controlled pairing. He is the one I see most of in the long finned pond because of his colour the rest are a manic ripple of water most of the time.

I love the gold high metalic females a lot. There is meant to be a yellow strain of Rosies but I don't see often, they have the red tipped dorsal but otherwise "leucisistic" not sure if that applies to fish, males slightly darker yellow.

Hope you and your fish have a very happy holiday season meantime. 

A

Take some photo and share the hard work.

My cross to Hawaii stock did do as well as I wish. They kick out almost 25-30% shortfin and some of the longfin have clamped tail.