Lighting Siestas and Dual Siestas

[Rita]

Sounds like I wouldn’t gain very much doing that from what I have going on now. Thanks Cory!

Edited May 23, 2022 by Rita

[Corbidorbidoodle]

I just do it so I can have the lights on before work and in the evening without the tanks being lit for 14 hours. That'd be way too much. But with them off in the middle of the day I can enjoy them whenever I'm home.

FWIW , my lights are on for 3hrs, then a 4hr siesta and then on for 7 hrs.

[Cbass]

If the tank is in a brightly lit area (natural ambient indirect sunlight, not direct) does that negate the effects of the siesta? I guess what I mean is do the plants need more or less complete dark...

Edited May 24, 2022 by Cbass

[Bev C]

i have  lights on smart timer  i do a siesta    because of the hours  i am away and at home I leave early and i have the lights come on 3 hours during the day  while i am away  off 4  hours and then come on for 4 hours while i am home before bed  to able to enjoy my tank 

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Bev C

[Corbidorbidoodle]

To the best of my understanding, the effective threshold for plants to photosynthesize is a fair bit higher than it is for algae. Does that make sense? So, there could be an issue where the ambient light is capable of growing algae, but your plants don't see it.

That being said, it's very common for my kids to leave the dining room or kitchen lights on all night, and I've not noticed it being an issue. I think direct or bright window light would be a problem. But, I think, diffuse, regular-type daylight bouncing off walls and stuff is fine.

[AvroVulcan]

Hi, I have the Fluval Plant 3.0 light on my 50 gal tank. I am gradually managing to get on top of the algae with small adjustments, but am wondering about the siesta method, but my question is this: I have a CO2 system in operation, so do I turn off the CO2 briefly when the light go off during the siesta, ie. If I have a 3 hour siesta, do I turn off the CO2 for the middle hour? I have livestock, mainly guppies with a few cories and neons.

 

Thanks

Edited May 27, 2022 by AvroVulcan

[Torrey]

On 2/4/2022 at 6:29 PM, Streetwise said:

I don't think @modified lung saw this Streetwise!

 

On 5/27/2022 at 2:03 PM, AvroVulcan said:

Hi, I have the Fluval Plant 3.0 light on my 50 gal tank. I am gradually managing to get on top of the algae with small adjustments, but am wondering about the siesta method, but my question is this: I have a CO2 system in operation, so do I turn off the CO2 briefly when the light go off during the siesta, ie. If I have a 3 hour siesta, do I turn off the CO2 for the middle hour? I have livestock, mainly guppies with a few cories and neons.

 

Thanks

My understanding is most people who use CO2 don't mess with siestas. The way the siesta works, from my understanding of reading Dr Diana Walstad's cited research, is in tanks that don't run CO@ ("natural" tanks, or "low-tech" tanks) a lot of water testing by various members of the Raleigh Aquarium and Plant Society, as well as students who helped with the research at NCSU, found tank water hit maximum passive saturation of the water with CO2 (from fish respiration and from ambient air) at the 4 hour mark after lights went out.

They also found that maximum usage by plants of the passive CO2 available in the tank, happened within the first 4 hours of lights being on. The proposed hypothesis, which I have not seen definitive, peer-reviewed research released on, was if we turn lights off as soon as plants have utilized the available CO2 (so that 4 hour mark) then the plants will have a better chance outcompeting algae for the rest of the nutrients in the tank. My experience supports this hypothesis.

I do not use CO2, so I can't speak definitively one way or the other. I have wondered if someone would be willing to test a CO2 system with the siesta method (which would probably require the CO2 being on a timer to come on an hour before lights turn on via timer, and turn off the CO2 an hour before lights turn off via timer) and see if the same "competition for resources" logic holds true, and algae growth is inhibited by the shorter light cycles (cramming 2 days of growth into one day, so to speak. Just a much shorter, and for those of us not running CO2 the shorter is more productive in plant growth).

Benefits that many of us have noticed with the split light schedule, is vastly reduced stress in the tank inhabitants. Behavior is much calmer, less flitting and running into walls, and less aggression in dominance displays.

[Mitch_ScruffyCityAquatics]

I recently scheduled a single siesta for my 75 gallon and I believe I have seen some improvement. Thanks for the thread!

[AvroVulcan]

On 5/27/2022 at 9:21 PM, Torrey said:

I don't think @modified lung saw this Streetwise!

 

My understanding is most people who use CO2 don't mess with siestas. The way the siesta works, from my understanding of reading Dr Diana Walstad's cited research, is in tanks that don't run CO@ ("natural" tanks, or "low-tech" tanks) a lot of water testing by various members of the Raleigh Aquarium and Plant Society, as well as students who helped with the research at NCSU, found tank water hit maximum passive saturation of the water with CO2 (from fish respiration and from ambient air) at the 4 hour mark after lights went out.

They also found that maximum usage by plants of the passive CO2 available in the tank, happened within the first 4 hours of lights being on. The proposed hypothesis, which I have not seen definitive, peer-reviewed research released on, was if we turn lights off as soon as plants have utilized the available CO2 (so that 4 hour mark) then the plants will have a better chance outcompeting algae for the rest of the nutrients in the tank. My experience supports this hypothesis.

I do not use CO2, so I can't speak definitively one way or the other. I have wondered if someone would be willing to test a CO2 system with the siesta method (which would probably require the CO2 being on a timer to come on an hour before lights turn on via timer, and turn off the CO2 an hour before lights turn off via timer) and see if the same "competition for resources" logic holds true, and algae growth is inhibited by the shorter light cycles (cramming 2 days of growth into one day, so to speak. Just a much shorter, and for those of us not running CO2 the shorter is more productive in plant growth).

Benefits that many of us have noticed with the split light schedule, is vastly reduced stress in the tank inhabitants. Behavior is much calmer, less flitting and running into walls, and less aggression in dominance displays.

Thanks for the explanation, it makes a lot of sense.

I also find it interesting that there is not a lot of experience of the siesta being used in combination with CO2. I think I,ll have a go and see if it has better results than running the CO2 without the siesta. My CO2 is already on a timer, so it will be easy to add a few more timer slots to it. It might also help my CO2 to last a bit longer too!

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by AvroVulcan

[modified lung]

On 5/27/2022 at 1:21 PM, Torrey said:

I don't think @modified lung saw this Streetwise!

Someone buy me a neptune.

[Torrey]

On 5/27/2022 at 3:05 PM, AvroVulcan said:

Thanks for the explanation, it makes a lot of sense.

I also find it interesting that there is not a lot of experience of the siesta being used in combination with CO2. I think I,ll have a go and see if it has better results than running the CO2 without the siesta. My CO2 is already on a timer, so it will be easy to add a few more timer slots to it. It might also help my CO2 to last a bit longer too!

 

It should definitely help your CO2 last longer!

Take photographs, and document your water testing regularly (I add my photos to a spreadsheet, to make it easy to keep up with). Remember to only change one parameter a month so you know exactly what led to a change. After a month, you can compare pictures and even come in to the forum and share how it wnet and help identify any nutritional deficiencies that may show up.

It's amazing, how as we make life easier for the plants to grow, they start telling us exctly what is missing (or is in too high amounts) in our water, almost more reliably than the expensive tests for minerals and TDS composition.

[mouseturd13]

I did mine to prevent algae. I set it to be on at the times I’m home the most so I could enjoy my tank more also. No rules as to when! I have a ten gallon but no CO2 but when I upgraded my light I had a lot of algae come in. No algae now! 

[Pratzie]

Sorry to post on a stale thread but was curious how your pH swings were with a single, longer siesta as opposed to the shorter, dual siestas you posted the graph for  

Currently using a single siesta consisting of 5-4-4 with 15 minute ramps before and after each. NOT a Walstad tank but buffered Aqua soil. Have seen great growth in my Anubias’s, dwarf hair grass and Java ferns with lots of new buds showing up on both my regular and windelov varieties.

[AHHA]

On 10/22/2020 at 5:53 PM, Daniel said:

As you can see from @Streetwise 's graph above the pH is lowest in the early morning every day. This is because during the nighttime photosynthesis runs in reverse and plants take in oxygen and give off carbon dioxide with the peak build up of CO2 being in the early morning thereby lowering the pH. Once the lights are on the plants begin to photosynthesize and thus begin to consume carbon dioxide and release O2 again.

It is one thing to read about it in books, but to measure it in your own aquarium and see that it not only works in general, but also to confirm that even the triple peaks of the lighting match the triple peaks of the pH is really educational. That alone just about justifies getting the Apex.

I’m just curious about the explanation.. I’m a biologist, but not a botanist and am always trying to learn more.

I thought that plants (mainly C3) only took in O2 for photorespiration - which happens when it is too hot and the stomata close or the CO2 levels are low for another reason and photosynthesis is taking place (probably low CO2 and high light affects in aquariums?)

On 5/27/2022 at 4:05 PM, AvroVulcan said:

Thanks for the explanation, it makes a lot of sense.

I also find it interesting that there is not a lot of experience of the siesta being used in combination with CO2. I think I,ll have a go and see if it has better results than running the CO2 without the siesta. My CO2 is already on a timer, so it will be easy to add a few more timer slots to it. It might also help my CO2 to last a bit longer too!

 

Did that work well? 
I honestly just saw that this is an old thread, but hopefully you can follow up on this?