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German Blue Rams Keep Dying.


Bucio
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Hello! I purchased 6 GBR from an aquarium shop here in Indy. I had plans of having a tank with a few GBR because i fell in love with them once i saw them and aspired to breed them. Over the past month each one had died about 3-4 days after the other. Today the final one died and they all died in the exact same way. I read that it could be because of bad breeding because a week before i got the batch of 6 i bought 2 GBR at the same shop and those two are still alive and show no signs of stress or sickness. I also keep a pleco, pictus catfish, 3 guppies and one betta in the tank. The tank is 55g . Iv done everything i can. I keep my tank at 84 degree. Do water changes every 3 days. Ammonia stays at 0  nitrite stays at 0 and nitrate somewhere between 20-40ppm. I doubt its anything to do with water as they all die one after the other even after water changes in between. Iv medicated the whole tank just in case and still the batch of 6 all died. They breath heavy and stay still and slowly die. They dont exactly lose color but instead almost light up even more but with a grayish look to them. I couldn’t figure out how to post a picture on here otherwise i would have. Any ideas on what happened? I currently have 6 new GBR in a quarantined tank and am adding paraguard, general cure and maracyn. I plan on keeping these in there for about 2 weeks before i add them to the same tank the others were in but i want to get advice before adding them to my show tank. Please help thank you! 

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How long has the tank been setup? I've never had much luck with rams in tanks that weren't well established. It's difficult to say for sure from the picture, but you may find that even in a 55, you may not have luck with more than one pair without lots of cover. Breaking lines of sight so that they can establish their own turf can make a big difference. They can be very territorial, and that can lead to some early deaths due to stress. Your QT process should help with any parasites they are carrying, which seems to be far from uncommon in fish from the larger suppliers.

And just a warning from experience. I've seen a pictus eat full size platties and swordtails, so when it gets big enough, it might see the rams as dinner.

Edited by 3vi1p3nguin
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17 minutes ago, 3vi1p3nguin said:

How long has the tank been setup? I've never had much luck with rams in tanks that weren't well established. It's difficult to say for sure from the picture, but you may find that even in a 55, you may not have luck with more than one pair without lots of cover. Breaking lines of sight so that they can establish their own turf can make a big difference. They can be very territorial, and that can lead to some early deaths due to stress. Your QT process should help with any parasites they are carrying, which seems to be far from uncommon in fish from the larger suppliers.

And just a warning from experience. I've seen a pictus eat full size platties and swordtails, so when it gets big eno, it might see the rams as dinner.

Iv had the tank for about 2 months. But the tank had been well established before i got it. It came with an HOB filter, a canister filter,  and two decent size sponge filter and all had plenty of bacteria. the sponge filters have been moved to my quarantine tank. And once the catfish get bigger i will move them. I still cant figure out why they died. They arnt cheap so i dont wana keep buying them. And beside the money i want to give them a good and healthy life. 

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One possibility could be that adding 6 rams was too much for your system to handle. At 2 months, your tank could've been cycled but only for the amount of fish that you have. Adding 6 fish at once could've caused a spike in ammonia or nitrite. It might have not shown up when you tested your water because it can fluctuate.

Do you have live plants in your tank? If you don't have live plants, having 20-40 ppm of nitrates is pretty high. I know GBR tend to be sensitive towards water quality. I know you said you do a water change every 3 days, but how much are you changing?

You quarantine tank might not be able to biologically handle 6 rams too. I would test the main tank periodically to make sure that it is fully cycle and isn't fluctuating for ammonia, and test the quarantine tank too. Try adding fewer fish in next time as it'll let you beneficial bacteria to catch up to the extra waste.

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How hard is your water? I bought 4 of them months ago and they died one after the other similar to what you explained. Slowly, coloration lightening up, labored breathing. My tap water is very hard and has a high Ph. 

Since then I have invested in an RO water system and I purchased 8 rams 4 gold 4 German blue from bioAquatiX. All arrived alive, and over a month later they are all healthy. I use mostly RO water now with a bit of tap water to get a little bit of KH back. I believe soft water to be decently important for them, but I am no expert. Just sharing my experience. 

55995A5A-F156-4C48-8CDF-794C3AD7C5E6.jpeg

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11 hours ago, toothgrinder said:

How hard is your water? I bought 4 of them months ago and they died one after the other similar to what you explained. Slowly, coloration lightening up, labored breathing. My tap water is very hard and has a high Ph. 

Since then I have invested in an RO water system and I purchased 8 rams 4 gold 4 German blue from bioAquatiX. All arrived alive, and over a month later they are all healthy. I use mostly RO water now with a bit of tap water to get a little bit of KH back. I believe soft water to be decently important for them, but I am no expert. Just sharing my experience. 

55995A5A-F156-4C48-8CDF-794C3AD7C5E6.jpeg

 

I haven't kept them, but from extensive reading I believe all that is correct.  My pH is 8.2, which is a big reason I haven't tried them.  I've been tempted, but it's much easier to keep fish that like my water, and I'm too old and too lazy and too busy to go to that much trouble.

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On 12/5/2020 at 3:20 AM, test.tin said:

One possibility could be that adding 6 rams was too much for your system to handle. At 2 months, your tank could've been cycled but only for the amount of fish that you have. Adding 6 fish at once could've caused a spike in ammonia or nitrite. It might have not shown up when you tested your water because it can fluctuate.

Do you have live plants in your tank? If you don't have live plants, having 20-40 ppm of nitrates is pretty high. I know GBR tend to be sensitive towards water quality. I know you said you do a water change every 3 days, but how much are you changing?

You quarantine tank might not be able to biologically handle 6 rams too. I would test the main tank periodically to make sure that it is fully cycle and isn't fluctuating for ammonia, and test the quarantine tank too. Try adding fewer fish in next time as it'll let you beneficial bacteria to catch up to the extra waste.

Well i doubt that the 6 rams was too much for it to handle seeing as i was given the tank with about 30 African cichlids which i donated the same day i got these. 
 

At the time they died i did not have live plants. But i have since bought quite a few beginner plants that should do fine in my tank. And as far as water changes i do about 40-50% everytime. Is that too much? I dechlorinate every time and turn off two of my filters off and leave one on to move the water around for about 10 min then turn the other two back on as i have no idea how instant it gets dechlorinated. 
 

i have gotten a batch of 6 new rams and the two that i bought at 1st are still alive and well. Im edging towards bad genetics. 

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22 hours ago, toothgrinder said:

How hard is your water? I bought 4 of them months ago and they died one after the other similar to what you explained. Slowly, coloration lightening up, labored breathing. My tap water is very hard and has a high Ph. 

Since then I have invested in an RO water system and I purchased 8 rams 4 gold 4 German blue from bioAquatiX. All arrived alive, and over a month later they are all healthy. I use mostly RO water now with a bit of tap water to get a little bit of KH back. I believe soft water to be decently important for them, but I am no expert. Just sharing my experience. 

55995A5A-F156-4C48-8CDF-794C3AD7C5E6.jpeg

Im not sure on my water hardness or ph level. Are they one and the same? And i didnt think that was it as the two rams i bought before the 6 that died are still up and running and show no signs of what the others showed. Im thinking it was bad genetics but like you i am no expert. I appreciate your feedback tho. I might have to invest in a water softener as you have! Good idea!

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10 minutes ago, Bucio said:

Im not sure on my water hardness or ph level. Are they one and the same? And i didnt think that was it as the two rams i bought before the 6 that died are still up and running and show no signs of what the others showed. Im thinking it was bad genetics but like you i am no expert. I appreciate your feedback tho. I might have to invest in a water softener as you have! Good idea!

Ph is not the same as hardness, though hard water typically has a high ph and soft water has low. Hardness is a measure of the total dissolved solids in the tank, which is a combination of your GH (general hardness) and KH (carbonate hardness).

Water softeners are different than an RO system, you don’t want a softener unless it’s followed by an RO system at the end. 

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  • 5 months later...

I just posted they similar experience in the disease section.

I've had Rams where I had to bring my water down from a high pH with a RO water and mixed with tap water. They lasted about a little over a year...the ones that made it at least. Now I'm in different water with low pH of 6.8 soft water GH KH is low. I add crushed Coral to stabilize. My experience is the same as the original poster. Fish are swimming around seemed fine and then one morning they are inactive hanging towards the top of the tank Within a day they're gone. It's happened over and over and I've spent a lot of money and I'm really sad about letting fish die so I'm about ready to give up. I did the quarantine with the meds this time for two weeks. It has been over a month and now they're slowly passing. 

I read one study that believes that could be parasitic that takes an antibiotic that you have to mix it with food. I am trying that but I think that the one that is sick right now is not eating. I have also read that it could be possible from Farm breeding and some of the chemicals that they do use.

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