Michow Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 (edited) This is my first post here so I hope all of the pictures come across okay. I am in the middle of the quarantine process with 11 otocinclus catfish and I need advice on how to proceed. I received the fish November 18th and housed them in a 10 gallon just for quarantine. When we are done with quarantine, they are going to a planted 55 gallon that was setup just for them. Currently, most of the oto cats are settled in quite well: rich dark colors, eating a variety of foods, full bellies, shoaling with each other, etc. Little Cat B (in pictures below) had some fin rot, but after I started API Triple Sulfa treatment it resolved so quickly and I can’t tell it apart anymore. However, there is one fish that troubles me, I named him Little Cat A (in pictures below). He has a white patch on his left side. There was a tiny red spot in the center, I had to use a microscope at 50x magnification to see a hint of it. We are 6 days in with treating everyday with Triple Sulfa and I’m not seeing much improvement. The open wound is gone but the white patch is still there. Also, not there are some white bumps at the base of his dorsal fin. Other than appearance he is acting the same as the other fish which has me very hopeful. Should I continue treating the whole tank with Triple Sulfa or should I move onto something else like API Furan-2? Furan-2 has the same drug as Ick cure but without the Malachite Green that scaleless fish are sensitive to. _______________________________________________________ More details Fish species: Otocinclus huaorani Arrived: November 18th, 2020 They will eat: cucumber, spinach, kale, bell pepper, zucchini, Northfin Kale wafers, Fluval Bugbite Algae Crisps, Sera Spirulina Tabs, Repashy Soilent Green gel-form. They eat very well. Water Parameters with dates: Tank temperature: 77.5-79.1°F 17-Nov 23-Nov 24-Nov 29-Nov Day of Quarantine -1 5 6 11 Prev. Water Change 100 single 25 daily 100 single 50 daily pH 6.8 7.5 7.5 7.5 Ammonia 0 1 0.25 0.5 Nitrite 0 0.25 0 0 Nitrate 0 0 0 0 GH 7 8 10 9 KH 3.5 4 4 5 Phosphate 0 1 0 0.25 TDS 179 547 1160 385 Dated Log: 17-Nov Day -1 – Did a 100% water change to the tank before arrival. This tank had been a plant quarantine tank for 6 months. Then 1 month before I had used it to quarantine some Glo-Tetras using the Aquarium Coop trio method. That quarantine only lasted a week. Used it for holding plant cuttings in between and allowed algae to grow in preparation for otos. 18-Nov Day 0 – Otocinclus huaorani fish arrived. Drip acclimated them to the quarantine tank water. Then hung the specimen container inside the tank to allow the temperature to acclimate. 19-Nov Day 1 – Started first round of medications: API General Cure and API E.M. Erythromycin as well as Melafix and Pimafix. Continued treatment for 4 days. 25% water change daily. 23-Nov Day 5 – Did a 100% water change after testing and finding Ammonia in the tank. Added ½ dose of Aquarium Salt to the whole tank. Started doing 50% water changes after this to mitigate presence of Ammonia due to killing BB with medications. Added Seachem Equilibrium. 24-Nov Day 6 – Started API Triple Sulfa medication. Continued Melafix, Pimafix, Equilibrium, and ½ dose Aquarium Salt with 50% water changes. 26-Nov Day 8 – Decided to stop adding ½ dose Salt to the water changes to let the salinity decrease gradually. 29-Nov Day 11 – All Fish are rich in color except for Little Cat A (see picture). Little Cat A acts normal, but has a white patch on left side and bumps on base of dorsal fin. 30-Nov Day 12 – I have been using Triple Sulfa for 6 days at this point. Still 50% water change every day with added Seachem Equilibrium. Treatments used: Day 1 to 5: API General Cure (250 mg Metronidazole, 75 mg Praziquantel) and API E.M. Erythromycin (200 mg Erythromycin), 5 mL Melafix and 1 mL Pimafix Day 6 to 11+: API Triple Sulfa (664 mg Sodium Sulfathiazole, 168 mg Sodium Sulfamethazine, 168 mg Sulfacetamide) Treatments considering: API Furan-2 (85 Nitrofurazone) API Super Ick Cure (60 mg Nitrofurazone, 3.6 mg Malachite Green) Edited November 30, 2020 by Michow Typos. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenFins Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Don;t worry about the scratch. As far as the fungal growth, I would treat with aquarium salt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alesha Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 What an excellent post! This is the way to give all the details so someone like @Cory can come along and diagnose the problem. I would wait to see what some of the others say. My gut says that if 1 fish has additional issues, the others could too. So if you treat one, treat the others as well. However, I'm not experienced enough to know which meds to suggest. So hang in there...I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will give you some advice. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 I have no experience with the drugs you are using, but I would probably add an antifungal to your treatment--though with time salt will also handle fungal issues. I think the triple sulfa is treating for bacteria, and white fuzz can be either bacteria or fungi. I would keep feeding well and keep up with water changes as you have been, and most likely all fish will recover with or without treatment--but do treat if you can. In all honesty, you are a better, more conscientious fish keeper than I am already--you have some lucky fishes! Excellent post and welcome to the forum! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Cory Posted December 1, 2020 Administrators Share Posted December 1, 2020 To me it looks like it's healing. I'd keep feeding well and observing. I think the hardest battle is going to be getting nutrition into them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michow Posted December 3, 2020 Author Share Posted December 3, 2020 (edited) Thanks everyone. Sincerely thank you! I do think the white bumps on the top fin could be something, but it's hard to say on the side patch. It looks much whiter in person. Somehow it always tones down in photos so I guess it must be a reflection thing. I put this on some Facebook groups too. So far it sounds like most people are suggesting to wait, hold off on treating with medicine, and to observe if it gets better or worse. One person suggested running a UV sterilizer in the background for now. That sounded like a good idea, proactive but prehaps less stressful for the fish than medicine. I ordered one so I'm just waiting for it come it. I'm going to keep offering lots of foods. And I'll keep doing 50% water changes until either the BB recover and take over or quarantine is over and the fish can head to their new home! Edited December 3, 2020 by Michow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michow Posted December 13, 2020 Author Share Posted December 13, 2020 (edited) This is what that fish looks like now. Not getting much worse, but not much better. The base of the dorasal fin doesn't have white bumps anymore, but looks raw and pink. The side white patch is still there and has fine fluff coming out. So far I don't see stuff like the on the other fish so that's good. Edited December 17, 2020 by Michow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Looks Like its starting to heal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michow Posted December 16, 2020 Author Share Posted December 16, 2020 (edited) The white patch fell off and now he has this huge open wound. Edited December 16, 2020 by Michow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michow Posted December 17, 2020 Author Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) He's changing very fast right now. His other side is turning white too. Edited December 17, 2020 by Michow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 I would start treatment with maracyn it look like a bacterial infection and salt 1 table for 2gallons 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamTill Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) Good on you for being so diligent, nice to see. That said, I suspect you may have reached the point of diminishing returns. Remembering that there’s a metabolic cost to processing meds through the ol kidneys etc, try not to throw the kitchen sink at them unless you need to. MOST batches of otos have at least some that have suffered wounds like this, and I usually chalk it up to them running into each other in panic (it’s an oto thing). Likewise, most recover from physical wounds if they have good clean water, good food, and have been wormed to some degree. So I’d chance letting your guy recover, and maybe not subject them whole lot to more meds. In case you want some more info, for my latest batch I got 17 of 19 otos through a 2 month qt in a new, bare tank. I was starting from scratch in the hobby after losing our fish room, and didn’t have a cycled filter to start with. Tank was setup the day they came home, and I just changed a lot of water and never let any params spike. I did three rounds of PraziPro, waited two weeks for them to recover, and did three rounds of IchX. The wormer was for gut issues (biggest issue I’ve found), and then the three Ich rounds were because I like to try to eradicate any low level infections so I can forget about Ich later on. I remember having a couple with wounds or red gills, and not doing anything special to have to deal with that (those weren’t the ones that passed). It took about three days to veggie train them to red pepper, and then I alternated zuchinni, pepper, and Soilent green. I’ve just had my 6th or so spawn out of them, so it’s working 🙂 Edited December 17, 2020 by AdamTill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michow Posted December 17, 2020 Author Share Posted December 17, 2020 Hey Adam, thanks for the thoughtful insight as always. It's been about 15 days since I had put any meds in the tank. I also quit the salt and the pimafix and melafix. I was really close to calling quarantine done, but today his little body just erupted in large white patches (beyond what he had before) and then it's like his skin is falling off of him. It's sad to see an oto by himself but I isolated him from the others for now. My last parameters I did Dec 14: Temp 76 F, pH 7.5, Amm 0, Nitrite 0.25, Nitrate <5ppm (not 0 but lighter than the next step), GH 6, KH 3, Phos 0.25, TDS 226 I got so busy with everything this past week and I had to do 50% water change every other day for the last three changes. I was hoping that the cycle had recovered enough to allow some lax, but now I wonder if that caused the unfortunate turn in this little guy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michow Posted December 17, 2020 Author Share Posted December 17, 2020 The only meds I have used so far are described in the post above. My regimen didn't include any Ick med or nitrofuranzone with malachite green. I was considering it when I first made the post but held off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) Nitrite are high that mite be affecting recovery Edited December 17, 2020 by Colu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michow Posted December 18, 2020 Author Share Posted December 18, 2020 Progression. Both sides have large ulcers. The base of the top fin is almost gone. I will probably have to euthanize this one. He stayed the same for a very long time. But once things changed they changed fast. He's separated from the others for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 (edited) It looks like a nasty bacterial infection have you tried maracyn and salt sometimes it turns them round when really sick Edited December 18, 2020 by Colu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michow Posted December 18, 2020 Author Share Posted December 18, 2020 I don't have Maracyn 2. I will have to check the local stores. I do have aquarium salt. I am trying Furan-2 like what most sites recommend for columnaris. I just hope the others don't have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 You need maracyn not maracyn2 different antibiotic one treats gram positive bacterial infections and one treats gram negative if you cannot get maracyn try API erythromycin it the same antibiotic that in maracyn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michow Posted December 18, 2020 Author Share Posted December 18, 2020 (edited) Is there a way to tell if the bacteria is gram-negative or gram-positive other than doing a gram strain? Edited December 18, 2020 by Michow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 Most common is gram positive I would treat for that maracyn or API erythromycin treat gram postive bacterial infection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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