Betta with unknown disease

[Mari]

Hi,

I inherited a betta from a friend that his daughter no longer wanted. I never have a fish before. What I know about the betta is that it was purchased at Petsmart on January 2023. They got him a 2.5 gallon tank with a filter, but no heater. They gave it to me on March 2024 and he was not in good health and the water condition was terrible. I started reading and learning about bettas. I got a heater, started doing water changes, adding aquarium salt and got him on Fritz Bacter Shield. I also got him some frozen food and better quality pellets. He got better and better each day.

 

In July he got a unilateral popeye eye (left eye). I treated him with Fin & Body cure (Doxycycline Hyclate) and he got better.

 

I started cycling a 10 gallon planted aquarium for him on 8/30/2024 which is now fully cycle, but I have not been able to move him, since he's been sick for a while.

 

On 8/30/2024, I noticed his tail was in bad shape, which later I figured out it was happening because he started getting into the habit of sticking his tail behind the filter. I bought a different filter that hangs on the back, so he no longer can do that. Additionally, he had what it looked like a scale sticking out by his left eye (picture below)

 

On 9/1/2024 I did a 3 day treatment with Fritz Bacter Shield for his fin rot.

 

On 9/18/2024 he got, a unilateral popeye eye (left eye again), which later developed in cloudy eye, he got a funny white spot on by his left gill, and when the scale fell off, he started having some odd looking white skin in his face and around the eye (9/26). I never had a problem with spikes of Ammonia or Nitrites. The only measurement that is always high is the TDS, but I think it is due to the aquarium salt I am putting in his water. I use very little salt (like 1/8 teaspoon) and only to the amount of water I am changing, which is usually 1 to 1.5 gallons. I don't use tap water. I used to buy aquarium water at Petsmart, but since October, I started buying RO/DI water from a local aquarium, which is cheaper. 

 

He changed his behavior since he got his popeye eye in 8/30. I know he is not feeling good. He is still eating (only pellets is what I can get him to eat). I don't think he can see as good from his eye, because he misses getting pellets sometimes. His energy is not the same either. He doesn’t flare anymore.

 

Since he is sick, he is still in his 2.5 gallon not planted aquarium, which I am planning to keep as a hospital tank. He is alone in the tank. I just did a change of water on Saturday (10/9/2024), I always changed his water weekly and measured all the parameters. Below are the water parameters from 10/10/2024:

 

Temp: 80 degrees

PH: 6.6

Ammonia: 0

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 5

KH: 53.7

GH: 214.8+

TDS: 1,220 ppm (it is always high, but I think is because the aquarium salt)

 

Below is a list of what I have done so far, following all the instructions in the medications and changing water as indicated:

 

9/1 - 9/4: Fritz Bacter Shield (for fin rot)

9/18 - 9/21: Fin & Body Cure (for popeye eye)

9/24: Started adding Cattapa leaves to his water

10/2 - 10/5: Erythromycin

10/7 - 10/13: Bettafix (for bacterial disease)

10/20 - 10/22: Fritz Bacter Shield (3 consecutive days)

10/23 - 10/27: Fritz Bacter Shield (every other day 3 total treatments)

 

The last medicine I gave him was on 10/27 and I don’t know what else to do, since I don't have a diagnosis. I live in Iowa and I cannot find any fish doctors here. I looked in the internet, but I cannot find any picture that matches what he has.

 

Below are some pictures with the different things he has since 8/30 until now.

 

Does anyone know what he has?

 

I appreciate any help in getting a diagnosis.

 

Thanks.

 

 

[Riiz]

It might be a gram-negative infection that might not have been affected by what you've used so far, try some Maracyn 2. Btw, Fritz Bacter-shield and Betta-fix are basically the same thing, a plant-based oil extract that is used as a preventative, and is not a true antibiotic.

Edited November 13 by Riiz

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Hi, and welcome to the forum. Thank you for rescuing this unwanted Betta. I've rescued some Betta and I have to tell you. Stop using the Fritz stuff. Any of the oil/plant/non real med based stuff is crap (IME) and does nothing to help in fact it usually makes the problem(s) worse (as you can see your Betta hasn't gotten better with it's use, it's probably only the salt that is making the improvements added with your diligence in keeping his water up to snuff). Don't feel bad about trying to use this to help, I've fallen into that trap with others. Just don't use it. The only "natural" remedies I'd recommend that DO work (again in my experience) is salt which you're doing and Kataapa leaves (aka Indian Almond Leaves) which add natural tanins to the water that are anti-bacterial and anti-oxidant (like tea!). 

 

Double/triple check there is nothing in the tank that he's getting stuck in or rubbing up against to cause fin and/or scale damage. Leave plenty (or  no) space between objects/hardscape and the aquarium wall. Betta are curious little creatures and do ridiculous things when exploring tanks.

 

I agree with @Riiz though, if you can get yourself some Maracyn 2 and treat him with that. Keep the water warm, the lights low (for stress) and him away from anything that might chew up his fins, I would also consider adding an airstone to stir up the water, Betta are air breathers but I find that helps when medicating. Keep us updated!

Edited November 13 by xXInkedPhoenixX
Typos suck.

[Mari]

Thank you so much for answering my post. It is been hard not being able to talk to anybody that knows about fish problems, and the internet is full of controversial postings.

By the way, he did not have a name when I got him, so we decided that a good name for him was "Willy" as in the movie "Free Willy".

 

@xXInkedPhoenixXI When I got Willy, his tank came two plastic items, an arch and a pineapple. I checked them well and filed down any sharp edges or areas I though could be bad for him. I am usually careful in how I arrange things in the tank, so he has room to move around and get in and out of the pineapple from any window and door. He really like going inside the pineapple, that is why I never took it out, but I don't like it. I added a silk leave that he likes to lay on. I checked everything around to see if anything injured him, but the only thing I noticed is the problem of getting his tail behind the filter. When he was staying to the side of the filter, I started wondering if he was having issues swimming up to get air and that is why he liked the suction of the filter that kept him up close to the surface. I was also concern if it was a problem with temperature, so I put a different heater, one that I can actually set-up the temperature on, which is plug into an Ink Bird. I have the temp set-up to 80. I thought about increasing the temperature but, since I don't know what he has, I was afraid I will be aggravating the problem instead of helping. I left the old little heater there, unplugged, just because he likes laying on top of it, between the cord and the wall of the tank. I raised it up closer to the surface like the old filter was, and I always make sure there is a big loop on the cord so it doesn't touch him.

 

I just ordered Maracyn 2 and added an air stone. I will keep posted.

 

Thanks again for this wonderful forum. It is hard for people like me, with no experience, to get reliable information.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

This is a great place to get reliable help. The thing about our hobby though is that everyone has different experiences with their fish and aquariums. Sometimes you will get several bits of advice. Our job as fish keepers is to assess our own situations and do what we think is best for the fish/tank. There is no one way to do things sometimes which is great but also frustrating at times, mostly when we have a sick fish or a tank problem. 

 

I think you're doing great so far taking over Willy. Betta do like structures in their tank so it's nice you keep what I presume is the sponge bob pineapple that's pretty common. I would try and add a live plant or 2 when you get a chance. A small Anubias or Java Fern is easy to care for, can be glued to a rock (you don't plant them in gravel) and will help the tank be healthy. 

 

Great that you have an inkbird for temp monitoring. A Betta definitely needs the warm water and humidity to breathe. My betta always liked those silk Betta leaves too. Hope Willy gets better soon!

Edited November 13 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[Mari]

Thank you. My plan is to have the 2.5 gallon he is in right now, as a hospital tank, that is why I didn't what to add plants, since some medications affect the plants. The saddest part is that after a lot of research I got him a 10 gallon planted aquarium, that is it fully cycle, but since he is sick, I have not moved him into. I didn't want to move him to a new environment while he is sick and not very active. Below is a picture of Willy's new house, but he is not in it yet. It is very sad. There are all beginner plants, since I am not sure what I am doing yet. It has a Delta 30 canister filter, because I like cleaner looks.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

What a pretty tank, I hope he makes it through to enjoy it. Beginner plants are nice. I'm no longer a "beginner" but they are still my favorite to have. 

[Mari]

Hi,

 

I just want to give you an update on Willy. I was able to find Maracyn Two at a local fish store, so I got it on Wednesday November13. The only problem is that is expiring on  December 11, 2024, but it is not expired yet. I got home an did the first application following the instructions on the package. It doesn't look like he likes the air stone. I put it in a corner that he doesn't go to often, but he spends more time in the pineapple since then. On Thursday and he was pretty much not in view and I couldn't get him to eat anything. He looks more lethargic. I don't run the air stone all the time since it looks like is stressing him out, so I run it for a while a few times during the day. Since the medicine kills the good bacteria, I check the water parameters today, and ammonia and nitrite are good, but there are no nitrates. I am including a picture I managed to take today, it is not very good, but whatever he has, it looks the same, so far. 

 

I am really hoping he gets better.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

The expiring meds should still be effective even after the date on the package. It's unfortunate though, usually you have at least a couple years maybe a year at the least. 

 

I hope you see some improvement soon. Betta fish are not easy fish to keep. Their genetics make them very fragile. I'm crossing my fingers for you. 

[Mari]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the information about the meds expiring soon. That makes me feel better. I ordered some from Saltwater Aquarium, but I am not sure when are they arriving yet. I got a notification yesterday that it was shipped and I ordered on Wednesday. We will see.

 

I applied today the last of 5 day treatment. I will do a change of water tomorrow, and I am going to start a second round of treatment. The nitrate is 0 now since the medicine kills the beneficial bacteria, but ammonia and nitrite are 0, also, so that is fine.

 

It was only one day I couldn't get him to eat at all, but every day he is eating some pellets. He doesn't have much energy yet, so he eats while he is resting on the leave. I took the below pictures today. I don't see much different yet. The only thing is that I noticed that it almost looks like he has an indentation. I am not sure, What do you think?

 

Thanks for all your help.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Poor little buddy. Hard for me to say from the pictures here on condition. The most alarming thing to keep an eye out for is called pineconing, When you look down at your fish it looks like the scales are standing on end and it has a look sort of like a pinecone. This is when things start to go downhill more. As long as that's not happening just keep plugging along. Keep monitoring his parameters and get him good food to eat. 

So far from what I can see there is no pineconing so this is good. If I were in your shoes I'd do the second round then consider giving him a break and see how he fares if there are no changes in condition after round 2. 

[Mari]

Hi,

I want to let you know that I changed the water and started a new 5 day treatment yesterday. He ate a lot yesterday and ate pretty good today. I started noticing that the coloration in the problem area is changing to the purple color it was before. I think this is a good sign! His tale is still not what it used to be, but one problem at a time. He is still hiding and not as active as he was before, but I see some improvement. Below is a picture I was able to take today.

 

What food would you recommend? I got him a variety of food, but he only eats frozen brine shrimp and Atison's Betta pro pellets from Ocean Nutrition. I got him frozen blood worms, but he will spit them out. I also got him Betta Pro Shrimp Patties made by Azoo Bio Corp and Fluval Bug Bites, but he would not eat those either. In order to give his immune system a booster, I tried soaking the pellets in Nourish (from Seachem), Garlic Guard (from Seachem) and Vita Chem (Boyd Enterprises), but he doesn't like them much, and since the pellets don't float because they are wet, he doesn't look for them. Maybe when he gets better I will try again.

 

Thanks.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

I'm glad you are seeing some improvement! I'd not give him the garlic guard, there is some evidence that I learned from another forum member that it could cause organ problems. I'd only use it in desperate situations. It seems like he doesn't like it anyway though. 

 

I've fed my Betta in the past Ocean Nutrition and they did like it, from what I know it's a pretty good food too. I'd also try freeze dried daphnia which you can get at most big box stores...most of the time I've had to buy it in the "dial a treat" betta food, they never liked the other 2 freeze dried treats in that package. If you can get your hands on them my fish also liked Xtreme Betta pellets and Hikari Betta Bio Gold. Honestly a rotation of a few foods is fine. Daphnia is good to have on hand for roughage when they are constipated so if he eats that I'd definitely keep that on hand. 

 

I hope you continue to see improvement. If he gets healthy, his tail will return to its former glory. 

[Mari]

Hi,

Willy was a lot more active yesterday and today, he is eating more everyday. I offered daphnia from a Betta Dial-A Treat I got for him before, and he ate 3 pieces. I was surprise because he never care much for any of the items on the dial before. He also ate two bites of brine shrimp and, of course, some pellets. His coloration is getting better. See below picture I was able to take today. Tomorrow is the last treatment from the second round of Maracyn two. I will let him rest for a week and see how it goes. The 10 gallon is ready for him, the only thing is that I did not quarantine the plants, because I did not know you were suppose to, and also because I got all the plants from Aquarium Co-Op and BucePlant, so I thought they should be good and clean, but I ended up having detritus worms and seed shrimps. It could not be from the substrate or the rocks, because the substrate was new, and I washed several times and let to dry out in the sun on a sheet. I boiled the rocks and let them dry in the sun also. I learned that both bugs are beneficial for the tank, if they don't get out of control, but since Willy is still a little under the weather, I was a worry if moving him there will not be good for him with the worms and the seed shrimps. Who knows, maybe he will eat them!

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Glad he is doing better! I hope he improves! The detrius worms and seed shrimp should not be harmful for him. If he's the only thing in the tank and you don't overfeed they will control their own population. Personally I might keep him in QT though until I was sure he was through the worst of it because if I had to treat him with something else I'd not want to stress him with multiple moves. This is entirely up to you of course, always do what you think is best because there is often not one right way. 🙂 You're doing good, keep it up!

[Mari]

Thank for all the advice and support. Yes, I think it is better to keep him in the hospital tank until I know he is well, plus, even with the 25% water change I need to do tomorrow, I feel like the water in the hospital tank still have the medicine and it should continue working. When he is all well (fingers crossed), and I think he is ready to be moved, I am planning in moving everything he has in his tank for an easy transition. I think he will feel better if he has the items he knows around, at least in the beginning.

[Mari]

Hi,

 

I thought I will give an update on Willy. Hi,

 

I want to give an update on Willy. As we talked before, after the 25% water on Saturday, I was going to let him rest for a week. The injured area started looks more his color, but is not 100% gone. Yesterday and today, he was a more skittish, not sure if it is because I am not adding the medicine. I hope is not because he is reverting back. I am attaching a couple of pictures from today. I am not sure what is the next step when I let him rest for a week.

 

Thanks.

 

[Mari]

Hi,

 I hope everybody has a great Thanksgiving. A week ago I gave Willy his last dose of Maracyn 2, and he is reverting back. He is not eating well again. It is hard to see him anymore, he is always hiding and whatever he has is changing back to white, I was able to take a picture 2 days ago (11/27) and one today. I am not sure if I can do anymore treatments of Maracyn 2 or if he needs something different now. Any advise? Below are the pictures I tool on the 27th and today.

 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

I am so sorry to see he's not getting better. I went back through the thread and boy has he been medicated a lot. I'm at a bit of a loss as to why he's not doing well. ☹️ I'm tagging @Colu for any further advice. Personally at this point I'd try Kanaplex if I was going to go with a medication. I've had the best luck with this medication overall when treating my rescue betta fish. 

[Colu]

Looking at the head it could be hole in the head disease Given the amount of medication he's had I wouldn't recommend further treatment with antibiotic medication it could start to impact his kidneys i would give him  rest and not add medication what I would do is just add Indian almond leaves as they have antibacterial and antifungal properties i would add three  leaves per gallon  you want you water to have a dark brown colour add a  low dose of aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 10 that will aid Gill function and add essential electrolytes if you can get live brine shrimp daphnia black worms  that might stimulate his feeding response you could add some seed shrimp he might feed on them I would leave the air stone running I would leave it a week then i would do a course of metroplex active ingredient metronidazole treat's Hexamita parasite that cause hole in the head disease and also treats anaerobic bacteria such as aeromonas in food feeding a small amount twice a day for upto 3 weeks if he's not eating i would dose the tank @Mari

[Mari]

Hi,

Thanks for following up with my problem and for helping me out. Today I did a water change and added Indian almond leaves in the mentioned proportion. I should have the Metroplex and the Focus by Wednesday or Thursday and I already have Garlic Guard, by then it should be almost 2 weeks of rest from medicines. @Colu When you mentioned small amount twice a day, what would you say it is if we are talking pellets? I don't want to overdose or not do enough, that is if I get him to eat. Lately the only way he eats are pellets, and it is because they are floating and I can pretty much put them right by his mouth when he is on the surface. Most of the time he is hiding. Wet pellets don't float, so I had a hard time feeding those before, even with Garlic Guard. I don't know how hole in the head disease starts, but the first thing I noticed, before all this happen, was what it looked like a scale sticking out by his left eye. See below picture with blue circle where, scale looking thing was. Then he got the popeye eye. Later the scale fell off and a little later he got the white thing that started spreading around his eye. I am including a picture that I took today to compare the difference.

 

Thanks again for all the support you provide.

[Colu]

Hole in the head has been linked to poor water quality dietary deficiency Hexamita parasite there's a suggested link between hole in the head and active carbon if your using it I would remove if your foods more then three months old I would replace it  food losses a lot of vitamin and mineral content after 3 months for a betta I would feed 4-5 pellets twice a day if you can't get him to eat the medicated food dose the tank @Mari