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Do you Colony Breed or Line Breed?


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Hey all I personally love to colony breed all my fish, but I am well aware that for show quality guppies Colony breeding is not the best.

I am interested to see if others do line or colony breeding and if anyone you have noticed any drop off in quality based on your different breeding styles.

 

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5 minutes ago, MickS77 said:

I just got my first guppies, so I think I'll try colony breeding to start. Then separate some colors to see what kind of lines I can breed. I'm looking forward to see what happens.20200725_122206.jpg.a3828da255e554c6d1100e0d8fd4aa22.jpg

Glad you got some Guppies excited to see what you get out of the orange tux, cobra and looks like maybe a half black combo!

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I've had terrible luck with keeping line bred guppies. Really, most guppies I get from my LFS I can't keep alive for more than a few weeks -- felt like a failure at first trying to get a guppy tank going.

Luckily, the females I got from a store gave birth before kicking the bucket, and combining those fry with some endlers has kept things going well for a while. I would love to try to buy another group of guppies to introduce new color, but I'd like to figure out why I couldn't keep them alive previously.

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So the best guess I have to why the guppies aren't doing well for you are that the store is getting them wholesale and wholesalers tend to speed grow (heat and heavy feeding) this tends to make them weaker. the new generation you have will more than likely do very well in your tanks and water!

 

Hope they explode in #'s for you!

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Yeah, and I've also heard they might be bred in such sterile environments that an established tank can actually be a shock to it.

It's frustrating that guppies are still touted as a beginner fish. There should at least be distinctions -- that beautiful halfmoon guppy in the tanks next to the mutt guppies is not a beginner fish.

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3 minutes ago, StephenP2003 said:

Yeah, and I've also heard they might be bred in such sterile environments that an established tank can actually be a shock to it.

It's frustrating that guppies are still touted as a beginner fish. There should at least be distinctions -- that beautiful halfmoon guppy in the tanks next to the mutt guppies is not a beginner fish.

Gotta admit, the mutts are little rocks. 

I am starting with petco mutts, using a colony breeding style. I chose a bunch of half black with blue on the tails/fins and green dragonscale looking heads. One female might have some mosaic coloring in her tail and one male with a cobra tail.

I have fry under 1 month showing half black coloring, that looks like a solidly conserved trait. I strongly wish to duplicate the blue/green iridescence with or without patterning, but I can't see it yet. Admittedly this is a half-baked breeding program because I know I am losing some fry to parental predation. I never seem to catch them in the act, and so I save what fry I can when I see it. Hopefully additional plants filling in will help, or I will get better at catching moms just before they drop. 

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22 minutes ago, Brandy said:

Admittedly this is a half-baked breeding program because I know I am losing some fry to parental predation

That's how I'm doing it as well. Breeding platys and guppies in the same tank, along with cherry shrimp. No room in my house if I were to try to save all/most fry from every spawn.

 

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I started off colony breeding, but now almost exclusively line breed most of my guppy lines.  I have done a video on it where I took a colony bred strain over a 1 year period and compared it to the original breeder's line bred strain.  Also certain genes like dumbo ears (which are female sex linked) will just fall apart over time if left to colony breed.  That being said, some guppy strains do absolutely fine in a colony breeding setup.  It just depends on your goals.  

 

Edited by H.C. Aqua
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1 hour ago, StephenP2003 said:

That's how I'm doing it as well. Breeding platys and guppies in the same tank, along with cherry shrimp. No room in my house if I were to try to save all/most fry from every spawn.

 

What a happy aquarium! If I died and were to be reincarnated as a guppy, I would want to live in this aquarium!

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On 7/28/2020 at 2:04 PM, H.C. Aqua said:

I started off colony breeding, but now almost exclusively line breed most of my guppy lines.  I have done a video on it where I took a colony bred strain over a 1 year period and compared it to the original breeder's line bred strain.  Also certain genes like dumbo ears (which are female sex linked) will just fall apart over time if left to colony breed.  That being said, some guppy strains do absolutely fine in a colony breeding setup.  It just depends on your goals.  

I think with mutts colony breeding is great in the beginning, the "who knows what is in there" effect, but as someone who has selectively bred other non-fishy things, you would still have to have a grow out and select your future breeders. At least that is my plan, so maybe what I am doing is something in the middle.

I have 2 males and 5 females in this foundational generation of mutts. If anything fun pops up in the babies (who I don't let rampantly back cross to the parents-they are separated to grow out tanks) I will select for that, and cross those as my next generation, and so on, retiring adults as they age or I achieve something more desirable. 

I wouldn't consider this line breeding exactly, but selective. I suppose, if I am successful, I will have developed a line in the end. A line of mutts! 

(also @H.C. Aqua I have really enjoyed your youtube channel! Nice to see you here too!)

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1 hour ago, Brandy said:

I think with mutts colony breeding is great in the beginning, the "who knows what is in there" effect, but as someone who has selectively bred other non-fishy things, you would still have to have a grow out and select your future breeders. At least that is my plan, so maybe what I am doing is something in the middle.

I have 2 males and 5 females in this foundational generation of mutts. If anything fun pops up in the babies (who I don't let rampantly back cross to the parents-they are separated to grow out tanks) I will select for that, and cross those as my next generation, and so on, retiring adults as they age or I achieve something more desirable. 

I wouldn't consider this line breeding exactly, but selective. I suppose, if I am successful, I will have developed a line in the end. A line of mutts! 

(also @H.C. Aqua I have really enjoyed your youtube channel! Nice to see you here too!)

Good point.  Maybe there is a fine distinction between line breeding and selective breeding.  Good luck on reaching your goals on that mutt line.  It's one of the fun things about guppies.  

And thanks for watching!  

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I have been doing colony breeding for the most part, but with only one type of guppy per tank as I use my planted display tanks in my living room.  I have noticed that the end result is much less volume of quality stock vs friends who line breed. And I have to reintroduce new genetics often and have more culls (which I keep in my plant grow out tank, I don't kill anything).

I have been looking to switch over and try line breeding 5-6 of my favorites. I finally completed my plans to make my bedroom the African cichlids room and ended up with 6 empty 10gal, 2 empty 55gal and a 100gal. I had a lot growing out.

Now I just have to figure out how to get the wife onboard with making a non fish room into the guppy room.  And converting the living room into planted south American cichlids.

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I started with a similar situation, being given a specific room for fish. But then, that little area in the living room where a 75 gallon fits perfectly and hey, the temperatures stay cooler in the kitchen for my cold water fish, and I could stack 40 breeders right here in this corner, they would fit perfectly. Mine said I had to migrate outside if I wanted more, so I started tubs. A select few German yellows in a 30 gallon tub full of Najas, and a couple of 30 gallon growout tubs.

Now sometimes when I come home from work, I see her outside lording over the tubs with her hand on one hip and a net in the other hand, pulling fry. 🤭 I've heard a rumor that I get half the basement when it gets too cold out. 😁

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7 hours ago, Edward Steven said:

I have been doing colony breeding for the most part, but with only one type of guppy per tank as I use my planted display tanks in my living room.  I have noticed that the end result is much less volume of quality stock vs friends who line breed. And I have to reintroduce new genetics often and have more culls (which I keep in my plant grow out tank, I don't kill anything).

I have been looking to switch over and try line breeding 5-6 of my favorites. I finally completed my plans to make my bedroom the African cichlids room and ended up with 6 empty 10gal, 2 empty 55gal and a 100gal. I had a lot growing out.

Now I just have to figure out how to get the wife onboard with making a non fish room into the guppy room.  And converting the living room into planted south American cichlids.

always a challenge to see if you can make a room into a fish room

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I have a couple of strains that I am colony breeding. One strain is doing great but the other strain produces way more males than females. I have about 25 males and I'm down to only one female. I put her in a separate tank and she just dropped fry. Really hoping she had some girls. My second to last female got dropsy just about as she was ready to drop fry and I lost her. 

Edited by Errk25
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35 minutes ago, Errk25 said:

I have a couple of strains that I am colony breeding. One strain is doing great but the other strain produces way more males than females. I have about 25 males and I'm down to only one female. I put her in a separate tank and she just dropped fry. Really hoping she had some girls. My second to last female got dropsy just about as she was ready to drop fry and I lost her. 

This is really interesting. It makes me think you have an x-linked lethal recessive in that line. 

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