Need help with Betta finrot/cycle issue

[Rononk]

On 9/5/2024 at 11:00 PM, Rononk said:

@rjv23I'll check around, I would think there should be a pond store somewhere. This was his 2nd day in MB with a little salt, so hoping to see some progress in next day or 2, but going to get a plastic tub to move him into because he seems super stressed being in 3.5G he's been in 20G for over a year so not much room to hide/move around in, sadly I didn't have any plastic tub on hand so he has to wait until tomorrow and I'll make a run into town. I had to reduce the salt in his QT today as he seemed stressed after a couple hours and lethargic, so did 50% water change, and added just some MB back in. Not sure if it was the salt, or the size of QT, but probably both. so figured I would reduce the stress of one until I can get him into a little bit large tub.

@rjv23 I couldn't find any PP or acriflavinium chloride at local pond shop, but I'm going to start looking further out maybe a bigger city has some or something, my Kanaplex is here today, wondering if I can treat that with methylene blue or would it be too toxic? I also picked up a 10G to make it my new QT as he was really stressed in the 3.5g, so going to get temps matched and put him into that and match the MB back to him. Can't tell if it's helping as it's only day 3, it's still there, just can't tell if its growing or halted, trying to get pictures to compare but he's hiding a lot. but i'm assuming it could take a while to show signs of healing.

 

[rjv23]

sorry, there was a typo in my last post, you are looking for acriflavine chloride. there are many branded products that contain acriflavine. it is a pretty widely used antiseptic in the fish trade. check the active ingredients on the package of the branded products you are finding. should be there somewhere. sorry for the typo. the kanamycin should work fine. I would still do a salt bath followed by a peroxide bath, then the kanamycin  treatment.  if the ailment isnt too serious, reduce the salt concentration. I rarely use kanamycin, not easy to get here, but the baths usually fix the problems quickly with the acriflavine followup. also I treat in small containers and move to larger ones for rest. these fish dont need alot of water, and if really sick, a little salt and an almond leaf so they can stay floating near the surface works fine for me. I let most of my fish sit in 2 L of water while on the mend. in Thailand I have seen breeders use whiskey bottles, mickey size to keep the males, or even plastic cups. change the water daily and you are fine.

[Rononk]

On 9/6/2024 at 2:19 PM, rjv23 said:

sorry, there was a typo in my last post, you are looking for acriflavine chloride. there are many branded products that contain acriflavine. it is a pretty widely used antiseptic in the fish trade. check the active ingredients on the package of the branded products you are finding. should be there somewhere. sorry for the typo. the kanamycin should work fine. I would still do a salt bath followed by a peroxide bath, then the kanamycin  treatment.  if the ailment isnt too serious, reduce the salt concentration. I rarely use kanamycin, not easy to get here, but the baths usually fix the problems quickly with the acriflavine followup. also I treat in small containers and move to larger ones for rest. these fish dont need alot of water, and if really sick, a little salt and an almond leaf so they can stay floating near the surface works fine for me. I let most of my fish sit in 2 L of water while on the mend. in Thailand I have seen breeders use whiskey bottles, mickey size to keep the males, or even plastic cups. change the water daily and you are fine.

@rjv23Thanks, and no worries about typo, I've got at least 2 more days of MB treatment, should I continue that or stop that? or do you mean to do the salt dip, and peroxide bath then put him back in the MB QT? I'm not noticing much difference, it may have halted it? but I am hesitant to stop the treatment early as it might just make it more difficult to kill? I'm trying to get pictures of his fin every day to compare, but not having much luck in the 3.5 he hides as soon as I come over I'll try to post daily pictures as well in case I miss something. I am going to move him to the 10G at least for rest, and hopefully reduce his stress, I know it's typically the leading cause of fin rot that and water parameters.

Yeah I had to order Kanaplex from the U.S as in Canada antibiotics are extremely hard to get without vet prescription. just wasn't sure if I could use it with MB and salt etc.

 

Edit : Also the only thing I found with Acriflavin was Ruby Reef Rally, it seems to be liquid not powder, having hard time finding any products in Canada with Acriflavin listed as ingredient.

 

Edited September 6 by Rononk

[Rononk]

On 9/6/2024 at 2:19 PM, rjv23 said:

sorry, there was a typo in my last post, you are looking for acriflavine chloride. there are many branded products that contain acriflavine. it is a pretty widely used antiseptic in the fish trade. check the active ingredients on the package of the branded products you are finding. should be there somewhere. sorry for the typo. the kanamycin should work fine. I would still do a salt bath followed by a peroxide bath, then the kanamycin  treatment.  if the ailment isnt too serious, reduce the salt concentration. I rarely use kanamycin, not easy to get here, but the baths usually fix the problems quickly with the acriflavine followup. also I treat in small containers and move to larger ones for rest. these fish dont need alot of water, and if really sick, a little salt and an almond leaf so they can stay floating near the surface works fine for me. I let most of my fish sit in 2 L of water while on the mend. in Thailand I have seen breeders use whiskey bottles, mickey size to keep the males, or even plastic cups. change the water daily and you are fine.

@rjv23It's a little hard to see with the MB in the tank, but this is it today, it's actually more white/black when seen under a neutral light.  its the spot in the mid section near his body.

Edited September 6 by Rononk

[rjv23]

sera makes a product, (sera omnipur A) that is a good water conditioner with this ingredient. this is a liquid. yellow neon color, I use it in rest tanks along with a powder form I can buy here. depends on what I am treating. new fish with no visible problems get the bath sequence then into a rest tank with a few drops of the sera product. if open wounds, I sprinkle on the powder direct. saved many fish, but dont do too much at once, if you are using MB and it is working just finish with that. if it doesnt , do the salt and peroxide treatments.

Edited September 7 by rjv23

[Rononk]

On 9/7/2024 at 3:04 AM, rjv23 said:

sera makes a product, (sera omnipur A) that is a good water conditioner with this ingredient. this is a liquid. yellow neon color, I use it in rest tanks along with a powder form I can buy here. depends on what I am treating. new fish with no visible problems get the bath sequence then into a rest tank with a few drops of the sera product. if open wounds, I sprinkle on the powder direct. saved many fish, but dont do too much at once, if you are using MB and it is working just finish with that. if it doesnt , do the salt and peroxide treatments.

Got ya, thanks. still not sure if MB is working, his 4th day in it. said to do 3-5 day treatment, the blue tint makes it really hard to see if it's progressing or not. i'll let you know when the MB is over and I try the salt. I'll probably give him a couple days in a rest after MB. just to make sure not to over stress him more then he is. I'll post another picture later today too. he came out this morning for food, but then hid back into his betta log. so I'm leaving him alone.

 

Edit: I can order the Sera but will take a bit to get here as it seems Ebay is only place that carries it nearby, the PP I can order but I am going to talk to a friend who has a couple ponds maybe they have some, but the PP I think will be quicker to get here the other might take a week or two. It's hard to find products here with Acriflavin Hydrochloride in the ingredient lists, might be one of the substances they restrict, there was so many different pet medications/supplies they restricted a few years ago.

In meantime once his MB treatment is over I'll let him rest 2-3 days and monitor if it continues to grow, I'll do Salt/peroxide dip, and I can try the Kanaplex antibiotic until the AHC and PP arrive. hopefully he lives that long, poor little guy has been fighting a lot of stuff last few months.

Edited September 7 by Rononk

[Rononk]

On 9/7/2024 at 3:04 AM, rjv23 said:

sera makes a product, (sera omnipur A) that is a good water conditioner with this ingredient. this is a liquid. yellow neon color, I use it in rest tanks along with a powder form I can buy here. depends on what I am treating. new fish with no visible problems get the bath sequence then into a rest tank with a few drops of the sera product. if open wounds, I sprinkle on the powder direct. saved many fish, but dont do too much at once, if you are using MB and it is working just finish with that. if it doesnt , do the salt and peroxide treatments.

@rjv23Just a small update, still can't tell if it's better or worse, I'm starting to slowly siphon out the MB from tank,  I ordered some Sera Omnipur A it's coming from france, was the closest/fastest shipping I could get, still going to be 1-3 weeks. I also found some PP which should be here in a week or so. I have done the salt peroxide dip yet as I'm still getting him off MB, so in another few days I'll probably try that, or do the Kanaplex/jungle fuzz treatment and wait for the PP and Sera omnipur product to arrive. but being the salt/peroxide bath will probably be less stress i'll start with that. do I only do the dip once or several times a week? it's going to be a few days yet as I wanna give him a couple days to rest after I get the MB filtered out. or most of it.

[Rononk]

On 9/7/2024 at 3:04 AM, rjv23 said:

sera makes a product, (sera omnipur A) that is a good water conditioner with this ingredient. this is a liquid. yellow neon color, I use it in rest tanks along with a powder form I can buy here. depends on what I am treating. new fish with no visible problems get the bath sequence then into a rest tank with a few drops of the sera product. if open wounds, I sprinkle on the powder direct. saved many fish, but dont do too much at once, if you are using MB and it is working just finish with that. if it doesnt , do the salt and peroxide treatments.

@rjv23Hey, sorry for lack of updates, the MB didn't work with the salt in his QT, so I started him on Kanaplex while I waited for the Sera omnipur A and PP to arrive, it just got arrived here today, but he's only in day 5 of his antibiotic treatment, and the spot has turned into a hole a few days ago (before treatment with Kanaplex) but I think the antibiotics have slowed or halted it, but haven't seen much healing or reduction yet.

My question is, should I do those 4 dips you recommended or wait out the treatment of antibiotics now, I called Seachem and they recommended 7-14 days of antibiotics before stopping? I imagine doing both might be a bit much for his system, he's been through a lot now, I gave him about 5-7 days after MB before I did the Kanaplex. just wanted to ask as tomorrow I will be giving him his 3rd dose of antibiotic and then waiting another 48hrs, so figured you might be busy and thought  this would be good to ask in the middle of treatment. I'm leaning towards waiting for antibiotics and see if they work, I fear of overtaxing him, or the antibiotic not clearing it up completely and it coming back worse.

[rjv23]

• Next

sorry, I am not qualified to give you advice for a fish I have not seen. I laid out my treatment plan for this but advise you do what you think is best. doing multiple treatments on a fish for a simple external problem is usually a good way to kill it. go with what the professionals have told you. for me, bath dips with the sera product as a antiseptic should have worked in a day or 2. I avoid antibiotics if possible because then you are screwing with gut flora also. just do what you think is best, good luck

[Rononk]

On 9/19/2024 at 9:16 PM, rjv23 said:

• Next

sorry, I am not qualified to give you advice for a fish I have not seen. I laid out my treatment plan for this but advise you do what you think is best. doing multiple treatments on a fish for a simple external problem is usually a good way to kill it. go with what the professionals have told you. for me, bath dips with the sera product as a antiseptic should have worked in a day or 2. I avoid antibiotics if possible because then you are screwing with gut flora also. just do what you think is best, good luck

@rjv23Thanks again, I do appreciate all the help truly. One last question, I googled it but not 100% sure it's accurate and I can't read the instructions on the bottle, how much Sera Omnipur A do you use in your rest tank/QT? the closest I could find was just a generic Sera Omnipur dosage which was 1ml per 20L , is that correct?

[rjv23]

a usual measure is 20 drops = 1 ml. again, I use small tank for treatments, especially for bettas and similar small fish. so use about 1.5drops/ Liter. but actually slightly higher is fine also. I also add a little salt in the water also for slime coat help and it seems to destress the fish. couple gr/ L

[Rononk]

On 9/20/2024 at 10:19 PM, rjv23 said:

a usual measure is 20 drops = 1 ml. again, I use small tank for treatments, especially for bettas and similar small fish. so use about 1.5drops/ Liter. but actually slightly higher is fine also. I also add a little salt in the water also for slime coat help and it seems to destress the fish. couple gr/ L

@rjv23Thanks, I appreciate all your help. Yeah, I picked up 4/ 2.5 litre containers to run the treatments in as per your recommendations, and I have the 10 gallon he can recoup in and monitor after it's finished, I'm not sure why he keeps getting fin rot, thinking during one of my previous attempts to cure it, I must have crashed his cycle in his main tank, but it seems to be back up by my water tests, so just need to cure this little guy and give him some time to recoup before putting him back in that. 

Edited September 21 by Rononk

[rjv23]

there are a couple things that might help . I usually float a plastic lid in the tank or an almond leaf. these fish feel safer under cover. I also put some pvc pipe in the tank they can use as a cave to hide in, gives the security and destresses them. the best is a floating plastic pipe that hangs at the surface. these fish breath from the surface so they hang inside the pipe and come in and out for gulps of air. in your main tank you might not like to have almond leaf disintegrating and causing a mess, so get a mesh bag and hang it in the tank for a couple days like a tea bag. then remove. I use almond leaf, banana leaf, rooibos tea leaves among others. there are many botanicals that you can find that work well. be careful of the source to make sure there are no pesticides.

[Rononk]

On 9/20/2024 at 11:22 PM, rjv23 said:

there are a couple things that might help . I usually float a plastic lid in the tank or an almond leaf. these fish feel safer under cover. I also put some pvc pipe in the tank they can use as a cave to hide in, gives the security and destresses them. the best is a floating plastic pipe that hangs at the surface. these fish breath from the surface so they hang inside the pipe and come in and out for gulps of air. in your main tank you might not like to have almond leaf disintegrating and causing a mess, so get a mesh bag and hang it in the tank for a couple days like a tea bag. then remove. I use almond leaf, banana leaf, rooibos tea leaves among others. there are many botanicals that you can find that work well. be careful of the source to make sure there are no pesticides.

@rjv23 Ah okay, Yeah I have some almond leaves and some rooibos tea, both are not treated, and the tea is caffeine free etc. it's just the red tea, I'm going to be dunking him tomorrow in the treatment you recommended as it's his weekly water change in QT , the antibiotics I think slowed it, but it's still spreading slowly. so going to use some of his water tomorrow in the containers treat him in them, then i'll change his water, and after treatment i'll put him back in his QT tank, I got him a betta log to hide in as well, he spends 95% of the day in it now only time comes out is when I drop food in front of him.  I'm hoping this works, as I'm running out of things to try. I figured the anti-biotics should handle it. and it seemed to at the first couple days it halted but now it's back and spreading. also when I rest him should I just put him back in his home tank with Sera omnipur? since it's cycled? my QT isn't cycled and wondering if thats what is causing this.

One last thing, as I forgot, do I need to repeat this several times? or should it clear up after one bath? also does it work when the fin rot is black? it's black and white. so I know black is typically the bacteria and white is the fungus. both are considers gram negative from my understanding.

Edited September 22 by Rononk

[rjv23]

I wouldnt use any antiseptic in the main tank. if it is a cycled, stable tank, dont screw with it. just do water changes and occasional vacuums to remove waste and freshen the water. I dont use any treatments in a main tank unless something is really out of control. usually a cleaning and raising the temp a little for a few days will take care of most pathogens. it is important to do treatments when you first receive fish, especially for external problems. that is why I tend to use the dip sequence I gave you above. simple external bath sequence will usually eliminate most problems. I also rarely use antibiotics for external problems. also, remember what a cycled tank means. it means the bacteria are in balance to break down waste and the nitrogen cycle is working. you dont need that in a QT tank. you just change water with fresh and the chemicals are gone. when you read of fish gasping at the top, this isnt from a tank that isnt cycled, this is from a chlorine or ammonia problem. I would put anything in your main tank. treat the fish in the QT tank. just keep a bucket of water aged and gassed off to change every day or 2 when the med treatment say. again, if the fish is healthy, do to the dip cycle followed by a a rest in the antiseptic container. after he gets his wind back in a day, put him back in the main tank.

[Rononk]

On 9/21/2024 at 11:17 PM, rjv23 said:

I wouldnt use any antiseptic in the main tank. if it is a cycled, stable tank, dont screw with it. just do water changes and occasional vacuums to remove waste and freshen the water. I dont use any treatments in a main tank unless something is really out of control. usually a cleaning and raising the temp a little for a few days will take care of most pathogens. it is important to do treatments when you first receive fish, especially for external problems. that is why I tend to use the dip sequence I gave you above. simple external bath sequence will usually eliminate most problems. I also rarely use antibiotics for external problems. also, remember what a cycled tank means. it means the bacteria are in balance to break down waste and the nitrogen cycle is working. you dont need that in a QT tank. you just change water with fresh and the chemicals are gone. when you read of fish gasping at the top, this isnt from a tank that isnt cycled, this is from a chlorine or ammonia problem. I would put anything in your main tank. treat the fish in the QT tank. just keep a bucket of water aged and gassed off to change every day or 2 when the med treatment say. again, if the fish is healthy, do to the dip cycle followed by a a rest in the antiseptic container. after he gets his wind back in a day, put him back in the main tank.

@rjv23Thanks, I got ya, I won't use anything in my MT.

How many times/often did you have to do the dips to see results? like over a week or two period? just asking because this has been fairly stubborn fin rot, so trying to plan/prepare for worst case. I really thought Kanaplex would show results, and while the hole didn't expand, the black/white fuzzy bit doesn't look better and the black bit seems to be spreading.

sorry I've been asking a lot of different questions, when I started betta fish keeping they didn't tell me anything, had to learn it all from the internet. so I'm pretty cautious and i'm very attached to this little guy. hoping to keep him around for a couple more years as he's only about 1.5-2 years old, not sure how old he was when I got him. so assuming he was about 2-5 months when bought him. 

[rjv23]

here is my experience keeping bettas.
they are insectivores so pick feed with high protein content. they do not digest fiber and filler well. see if you can find food from black soldier fly. fuval make something called insect bites that is BSF, I havent used this but buy BSF by the kg and make food with egg and BSF + other additives. I also use commercial aquaculture probiotics that I purchase by the kg. there are certain strains for water quality and certain stains for gut health. these work very well for me. keep the fish digestive trac healthy and appetite up. these are not the hobby grade liquids, these are powders that must be refrigerated to prevent activation. the hobby trade is hobby, but if you have a source for commercial grade products see if you can find it. properly stored they last a long time.

the higher the temp, the faster the metabolism of the fish and the quicker it will age. keep the temp steady buy low when the tank is stable. if I am keeping a viewing tank (most of my stuff now is breeding  ponds), I get the tank stable, keep the temp low and stable, and sterilize and age water before adding. use some hydrogen peroxide in a bucket and aerate for a couple days before adding. some fish, like discus like it hot, but if everything is stable and you dont introduce pathogens into the tank, I think a lower temp is better to extend the fish's life span.if the tank parameters are stable, the temp can go quite low

for general external problems. just do the dip sequence once. give the fish a couple days to recoup in a sterile tank and repeat only if it is getting really worse. sometimes it looks like a fish is getting worse when actually you have already stopped the ailment and it is just necrotic tissue that is wasting. a dip in hydrogen, 3% at 0.5ml/L will help with this dead tissue.

bettas dont need alot of surface agitation. also, float something need the surface that will spoon him when sleeping. they like to be near the surface when resting. a half cut pipe or a plastic leaf that floats works well. just so they can stay at the surface without expending alot of energy when resting or ailing will also increase life span.

I add fulvic acid to the water to keep balanced mineralization. fulvic has many health benefits for livestock and humans

 

Edited September 22 by rjv23

[Rononk]

@rjv23 A lot of info here, Thank you. I do have Fluval Bug bites, it's his primary food at the moment, I do give him some Freeze dried daphnia every couple days with bug bites, just because I read that is suppose to help their digestion, and I had a betta die from a blockage before, so got paranoid.

I'm looking into the Aquaculture probiotics now with the info you gave me. I might be able to find a commercial distributor out western Canada (seems to be where most of the aquatic hobby/culture is) and maybe some affordable options, and fulvic acid, assuming that should alter PH a bit as well, which my PH is kinda high but he's been use to it.

Edited September 25 by Rononk

[Rononk]

On 9/20/2024 at 10:19 PM, rjv23 said:

a usual measure is 20 drops = 1 ml. again, I use small tank for treatments, especially for bettas and similar small fish. so use about 1.5drops/ Liter. but actually slightly higher is fine also. I also add a little salt in the water also for slime coat help and it seems to destress the fish. couple gr/ L

@rjv23 Also sorry again, the quote above, you said you use small tanks, but did you really mean 1.5 drops per liter or was that a typo? wasn't sure if that was a mistake as it would be roughly 30 drops per 20 liter only ask cause I was going to put some in his QT after he rested in treatment bin? he is on his 2nd day of rest since the antibiotic, I wanted to give him a couple days to recoup before I did the salt dip. unless you don't think it's required, I figured you were probably busy and this would give him some time to rest between treatments while I waited for your reply.

[rjv23]

what are the dosing instructions on the package? usually they give instructions for larger tanks, so many ml's per gallon. I use liters. about anyway, follow your dosing guide, just reduce it to the size of water you have, a rule of thumb is 20 drops = 1 ml. for that product I usually use about 1.5 drops per liter of water in a 1 or 2 liter tank, cover and rest him.

[Rononk]

On 9/24/2024 at 10:30 PM, rjv23 said:

what are the dosing instructions on the package? usually they give instructions for larger tanks, so many ml's per gallon. I use liters. about anyway, follow your dosing guide, just reduce it to the size of water you have, a rule of thumb is 20 drops = 1 ml. for that product I usually use about 1.5 drops per liter of water in a 1 or 2 liter tank, cover and rest him.

@rjv23All right , yeah I just wanted to clarify, I couldn't read the instructions on bottle so had to google it, but wanted to double check. I'm overly cautious. how soon after kanaplex do you think its safe to try your salt dip method? it's day 2 since his last antibiotic treatment. he's a little weak, but not sure if it's antibiotic or just long illness getting to him

 

Edited September 25 by Rononk

[rjv23]

you can usually google the product and get full info on active ingredients, use and dosage. did your treatments work so far? if they have worked, then let him recover. if it is obvious that it didint, then do the dips. again, sorry hard for me give you advise when I havent seen the fish or your setup. also giving you advise based on experience, not formal training. if the fish is active and eating, then do a mild PP dip and rest him in the acriflavine tank with a little salt to help slime coat recover.

[Rononk]

On 9/24/2024 at 11:02 PM, rjv23 said:

you can usually google the product and get full info on active ingredients, use and dosage. did your treatments work so far? if they have worked, then let him recover. if it is obvious that it didint, then do the dips. again, sorry hard for me give you advise when I havent seen the fish or your setup. also giving you advise based on experience, not formal training. if the fish is active and eating, then do a mild PP dip and rest him in the acriflavine tank with a little salt to help slime coat recover.

@rjv23The kanaplex slowed it, but didn't solve the issue, it's still slowly spreading, and the white fungal bit is still there. the black spots are slowly moving in but not severe yet.

No worries about being hesitant, truthfully I'm so out of my depth, that everything I do worries me. I just appreciate having someone with experience in this, as I worry sometimes I'm too hesitant or too proactive. so I'm always bouncing between the two. And also pretty much anything I read or am told if I don't use it right away, I make a list of things to try after each treatment.

He's not really active, he spends 99% of his time hiding in his betta log, but he is still coming out to eat, just as soon as he eats he goes back into hiding/resting.

I can provide a pic or video if that helps at all? but I know it's kind of hard to tell anything from that.

Edited September 25 by Rononk

[rjv23]

ok, so if there is fungus, do the PP dip. check this; https://ultraclear.com/potassiumpermanganate.html

I am not promoting this brand, but the info given here should make you feel confident that the PP should fix it, I gave you the dose above, 2mg/l or maybe a little stronger. be careful this will kill if the exposure is too long or dosage too strong. but to get rid of the pathogens you need to go a little strong. just watch the fish and remove if it starts to stress. I use this for all external problems. PP and salt treatments will clear up most everything. follow by a dip in hydrogen 3% at 0.5ml/l for a few minutes to clear the necrotic tissue, then rest in the antiseptic bath. I dont screw around with any other treatments for ich or velvet or any other external problem. this has always done well for me. even for fish that come to with problems. and I always use these baths as a quarantine procedure before letting anything into my system. you can check taiaquatics.com for some old vids of my rooftop or YT channel also has some info there. I farm in outdoor ponds and do regular disinfection washes of the ponds and tanks will PP. THE DOSE IS 2MG/L, MAKE SURE OF THAT. it works well if you follow the procedure. another vid online is from wattley discuss. he has alot of disclaimers about using it in home tanks. but just watch the fish and remove if need:

 

Edited September 25 by rjv23

[rjv23]

for anyone interested in PP treatment for aquariums as well as bigger pond and aquaculture applications, PP is a common pond treatment for Koi ponds and other aquaculture uses. I purchase from chemical stores 500gr powder form. the info I work from a pond forum. I mix a stock solution of 7.5 grams to 100ml. distilled water in a dripper bottle. treatment 0.5 drops of the solution per liter of aquarium to achieve a 2ppm treatment level. 0.25 drop per liter equals 1ppm. you can go up to 5ppm for a hospital treatment, but be careful. there are several concentrations on available from pond keepers on the web. I find 2 ppm concentration doesnt kill snails (which I keep in my breeding and grow out tanks), but it brings pathogens down in established tanks and ponds. I have several grow out troughs with gravel bottoms that I do not sterilize, I add the PP periodically to keep things in check between yield cycles. give the pond a soak with PP for a few hours until the color turns from pinkish purple to brownish tea, the use hydrogen peroxide to deactivate it (as shown in the vid above). then 50% water change.