Giving 2X the recommended dosage every other day and is still not enough?

[Minu]

As a follow up to the post below. I've been dosing 2x of EG every 2 days in my 75 gallon. The plants are doing much better but I'm still lucky to detect any NO3. I'm adding fish every week and feeding 3x a day to try and feed these plants. My 35g tank which had the very same issue finally "caught up" and is stabilized NO3 15-30ppm. 

I assume the 75g will get there eventually. Thoughts?  

 

 

 

 

[JoeQ]

IMO, There is a point that you hit where an all-in-one is not strong enough and you need to consider diffrent fertilizer methods such as El or macro/micro days . This is especially true if you are heavily planted & pushing CO2.

 

Edited July 30 by JoeQ

[Minu]

 

Low tech, plain gravel and lightly planted compared to most I've seen.  

8 Roselines
2 Rams
7 Serpa Tetras
12 Green Rasbora

3 Small Angles

2 Longnose/stick catfish 

 

I'm just blown away buy how much these plants are eating. 

 

[Pepere]

If plants have been deprived of nitrates they will suck it up for a while when they get more…

 

And the roots of your emerged plants isnt helping matters with trying to raise nitrates…

Each pump of Easy Green provides 3 ppm nitrate in 10 gallons of water.

37 pumps of Easy Green would add 15 ppm nitrates to the tank.  But at that point you are adding a fair amount more of other nutrients than needed..

You could continue as you are doing with adding fish and feeding more…. 
 

are you particularly attached to the emersed plants with the roots in the tank?  They are sucking the nitrates out fairly strong as they have leaves surrounded by well over 500 ppm of CO2 were the plants in the tank are surrounded by water that is most decidedly at less than 5 ppm of CO2….

Edited August 1 by Pepere

[Minu]

Thx. So, they should get "caught up" on their lack of NO3 to some degree and the needs should level out? (like being sleep deprived) 

The irony is I added the emerged plants about a month ago thinking/reading/advised I had to many nutrients.....but I know now, that just added to my problem. I took out 2 of them the other day and might take out the others if I need to, at least until the tank if fully stocked. 

My 2nd tank that had the same issue seems to have caught up finally. (it's also much more heavily stocked) 

[Pepere]

On 7/30/2024 at 8:12 PM, Minu said:

The irony is I added the emerged plants about a month ago thinking/reading/advised I had to many nutrients.....but I know now, that just added to my problem.

Well, its all part of the learning process.  You learned something that didnt work…Thomas Edison learned an awful lot of things that wouldnt make a good lightbulb till he found one that did…

I learned an awful lot of ways that didnt take care of algae too when I was starting…

The epiphany for me was being told to not worry about getting rid of the algae as much as learn how to grow healthier plants.  Healthy thriving plants defend themself very well against algae…. If I have algae on my glass or rocks, but my plants are algae free, I take time to clean the glass and rocks…I am happy to see the plants algae free…

Plants really like stable conditions. They have the ability to reprogram their selves for a range of conditions…. If the water, fert levels, gh, kh, light, co2 etc is always changing, the plant spends all sorts of energy constantly trying to adjust. It gets exhausted running to try to keep up with changes…

Making good healthy nutritious soup and keeping it the same, day in, day out and the plant spends its energy growing and outcompeting algae.

[Odd Duck]

On 7/30/2024 at 5:32 PM, Pepere said:

37 pumps of Easy Green would add 15 ppm nitrates to the tank

Let me see if I can manage to math this out at this late hour.  Easy Green is 2.66% nitrogen per their guaranteed analysis.  So calculated out would make that a solution of 117,000 ppm/ml (see below) and 1 pump per 10 gallons would then be 3.09 ppm (3 is close enough).  To figure pumps for any tank divide the desired ppm by 3 (3 ppm/pump) and multiply by gallons of actual water then divide by 10 (1 pump per 10 = 3 ppm).

So 75 gallons (with 2” of substrate and filled to about 3/4” below the rim is more like 70 gallons in real life) gives us about 35 pumps for 15 ppm (37 if you count it as 75 G) and about 47 pumps for 20 ppm (50 if you count it as 75 G).

For 15 ppm/3 = 5 pumps x 70/10 = 35.  For 20 ppm/3 = 6.7 x 70/10 = 46.7 (47 is close enough).  The pumps tend to under dose a bit since they don’t spit out 1.0 mls 100% consistently which is why I don’t worry too much about rounding here and there in the math.

 

The molecular weight of nitrate is roughly 4.4 times that of nitrogen (62 vs 14 Daltons - 4.4x close enough for me).  So, simple version means 2.66% nitrogen is equal to 26.6 mg/ml nitrogen (1% solution = 10 mg/ml solution).  Each pump equals roughly 1 ml.  So 26.6 mg nitrogen per pump gives us roughly 117 mg/ml nitrate.  Each 1 mg/ml = 1000 ppm, so our 117 mg/ml solution would be 117,000 ppm / pump.  1 gallon is 37,854 mls so 117,000 / 37,854 = 3.09 ppm / pump.

 

So, long way around to show that someone smart has already done this math for us and the chart that ACO has published that shows each pump gives you 3 ppm per 10 gallons is correct and it took me far too long to confirm this at this hour.  So if we want 15 ppm, then 5 pumps, 20 ppm is about 7 pumps per each 10 gallons.  Of course, this doesn’t account for fish waste, spoiling food, rotting plant leaves, etc, which is why you pump, test, and repeat if you want any accuracy on nitrate dosing.  Start slow and increase gradually for optimal growth and back down if you’re seeing algae start to boom.

Now it’s well past my bed time and I work tomorrow.  Night all.

[Pepere]

On 7/31/2024 at 2:53 AM, Odd Duck said:

So if we want 15 ppm, then 5 pumps, 20 ppm is about 7 pumps per each 10 gallons.  Of course, this doesn’t account for fish waste, spoiling food, rotting plant leaves, etc, which is why you pump, test, and repeat if you want any accuracy on nitrate dosing.

Or test your water for current nitrates and subtract that from what you are dosing…

5 pumps “adds” 15 ppm to 10 gallons, it doesnt “raise the tank to” 15 ppm…. If you start with 15 ppm, 5 pumps raises the level to 30 ppm…

5 pumps per 10 gallons also raises potassium about 10 ppm and phosphate 0.8 ppm and Iron about 0.5 ppm…. That iron level is getting to the upper range of a weekly dose.

Using Easy Green to dose a tank to these sort of levels with weekly 50% water changes every week on a larger tank is a vey expensive way to fertilize your tank.  
 

I have switched to Dry salts to estimative Index my CO2 tanks weekly, and use Easy Green fir my non CO2 injected tanks that see lower fert levels and less water change.

 

balancing convenience vs cost…

[Odd Duck]

On 7/31/2024 at 2:54 AM, Pepere said:

Or test your water for current nitrates and subtract that from what you are dosing…

5 pumps “adds” 15 ppm to 10 gallons, it doesnt “raise the tank to” 15 ppm…. If you start with 15 ppm, 5 pumps raises the level to 30 ppm…

5 pumps per 10 gallons also raises potassium about 10 ppm and phosphate 0.8 ppm and Iron about 0.5 ppm…. That iron level is getting to the upper range of a weekly dose.

Using Easy Green to dose a tank to these sort of levels with weekly 50% water changes every week on a larger tank is a vey expensive way to fertilize your tank.  
 

I have switched to Dry salts to estimative Index my CO2 tanks weekly, and use Easy Green fir my non CO2 injected tanks that see lower fert levels and less water change.

 

balancing convenience vs cost…

All excellent points!

[Vonz1]

On 7/30/2024 at 6:32 PM, Pepere said:

If plants have been deprived of nitrates they will suck it up for a while when they get more…

 

And the roots of your emerged plants isnt helping matters with trying to raise nitrates…

Each pump of Easy Green provides 3 ppm nitrate in 10 gallons of water.

37 pumps of Easy Green would add 15 ppm nitrates to the tank.  But at that point you are adding a fair amount more of other nutrients than needed..

you could buy some dry  KNO3 potassium nitrate to just raise the nitrates quicker.  Or you could continue as you are doing with adding fish and feeding more…. 
 

are you particularly attached to the emersed plants with the roots in the tank?  They are sucking the nitrates out fairly strong as they have leaves surrounded by well over 500 ppm of CO2 were the plants in the tank are surrounded by water that is most decidedly at less than 5 ppm of CO2….

Hi Pepere, Looking at this for a potential solution for my tank as well. Any others you can recommend? I am thinking about buying this one. My Nitrates are back to zero again. link: https://greenleafaquariums.com/products/potassium-nitrate-kno3-1lb-bag.html

[Pepere]

On 8/1/2024 at 8:05 AM, Vonz1 said:

Looking at this for a potential solution for my tank as well. Any others you can recommend?

I ended up buying dry salt ferts at Greenleaf Aquatics myself.  If you go that route, you might want to buy the tubs first and then buy pouches to refill the tubs.  Opening up a tub is more convenient than a pouch.

I bought KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4 for the macro nutrients, CaSO4 and Epsom salts to raise GH from my just over 1 degree GH tap water, and GLA (EDTA+DTPA) Micromix Aquarium Fertilizer for micronutrients.  This is for my 2 29 gallon display tanks with CO2 injection.

 

I am still using Easy Green for my 2 tanks I am not injecting CO2 into.  Without CO2 injection I think an all in one fertilizer is very much more convenient.  Once my Easy Green has been depleted, I might look to make my own solution with the dry salts, but I have 2 full bottles of Easy Green and in my 20 gallon and 17 gallon tanks with low reduced water changes,that is likely going to be nearly a 4 year supply…

[Vonz1]

On 8/1/2024 at 8:31 AM, Pepere said:

I ended up buying dry salt ferts at Greenleaf Aquatics myself.  If you go that route, you might want to buy the tubs first and then buy pouches to refill the tubs.  Opening up a tub is more convenient than a pouch.

I bought KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4 for the macro nutrients, CaSO4 and Epsom salts to raise GH from my just over 1 degree GH tap water, and GLA (EDTA+DTPA) Micromix Aquarium Fertilizer for micronutrients.  This is for my 2 29 gallon display tanks with CO2 injection.

 

I am still using Easy Green for my 2 tanks I am not injecting CO2 into.  Without CO2 injection I think an all in one fertilizer is very much more convenient.  Once my Easy Green has been depleted, I might look to make my own solution with the dry salts, but I have 2 full bottles of Easy Green and in my 20 gallon and 17 gallon tanks with low reduced water changes,that is likely going to be nearly a 4 year supply…

Ok sounds good. thx. I am still using easy green and easy iron but it appears I also need to add targeted nutrients as well. Wow, looks like you have a good handle on what your tank needs. Some day i'll get there too. Still making my way up that learning curve. 

[JoeQ]

Bags, then easy open walmart fliptop jars. 

[Pepere]

Presumably if your nitrates are depleted, the other nutrients are also being consumed, ie Potassium and Phosphorous.

 

I would think dosing more Easy Green might be a good interim plan vs just adding Nitrate.

 

Going the Dry Salt route can save a significant amount of money if you have a densely planted tank with high light and pushing CO2 at near the 30 ppm mark.

It comes with a bit of a learning curve to learn how to determine proper dosage with the online calculators.  
 

sitting down with someone to walk you through the process  can be done in an hour or two if you took high school chemistry and retain some understanding of it.  If not a bit longer. Certainly not an insurmountable task…

Edited August 1 by Pepere

[Pepere]

On 8/1/2024 at 8:48 AM, JoeQ said:

Bags, then easy open walmart fliptop jars. 

That has a lot going for it too…. 

[Vonz1]

On 8/1/2024 at 8:57 AM, Pepere said:

That has a lot going for it too…. 

I like your system. I use systems to solve most of my problems. I just ordered the EI system. THanks!!!