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Seachem Safe + Fritz ACCR question


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Hi all, this is a bit odd but I was comparing Seachem Safe to Fritz ACCR and noticed that they both advertise removing ammonia from the water column. Before looking into this I knew that ACCR's active ingredient is Sodium Hydroxymethanesulfinate while Safe is presumably similar (the SDS states that it is a proprietary blend of sodium salts, so they're not legally required to disclose what exactly is in it). I was under the impression that they bound ammonia temporarily rather than eliminating it entirely.

Does anyone know more about this? Some of my tanks have consistent ammonia readings (<0.5 ppm) following water changes due to the ammonia present in the local water that I use to top off the tank and until now I believed that Safe only temporarily bound the ammonia while my nitrifying bacteria used that time to catch up on consuming the new food supply.

I did find one ResearchGate article about Sodium Hydroxymethanesulfinate reacting with ammonia here that got me started, however the product used was not ACCR or Safe so I'm uncertain if the findings transfer, although the active ingredient was the same disclosed for ACCR.

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This is a long and argued path there’s a few patent out there for different stuff but a few sounds exactly like what prime does there’s also a cell culture test out there that seems to say it works but there’s been a few hobbies test over the years that don’t seem to have great results is it possible to turn ammonia into something less toxic yes your body does this that’s what urea is is this stuff actually good for your fish🤷 

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On 7/3/2024 at 2:20 PM, face said:

This is a long and argued path there’s a few patent out there for different stuff but a few sounds exactly like what prime does there’s also a cell culture test out there that seems to say it works but there’s been a few hobbies test over the years that don’t seem to have great results is it possible to turn ammonia into something less toxic yes your body does this that’s what urea is is this stuff actually good for your fish🤷 

Prime is (from what I can tell) the hydrated form of Safe, so this makes sense. I suppose the bigger question now is "what compound is the ammonia turned into?"

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It looks like your tap water is treated with cloramine when you treat your tap water you are removing the clorine leaving you with the ammonia. This sounds normal to me  ask yourself why is your BB not eating this ammonia? Or does it in a 24hr time period? I take it these tanks are cycled and your BB colony is large enough for your bioload. If I were to use these products it would be to only remove clorine or that part of cloramine and let my cycled tank do the rest. Mine will take care of (<0.5 ppm) overnight I think everyones with fish in should. I don't know about plants never cared for them. Different strokes for different folks. I don't know what you have in your tanks.

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On 7/3/2024 at 5:29 PM, johnnyxxl said:

My BB and plants would keep that level down.  I have trouble getting enough nitrates for my plants on a regular basis.

I often wondered about that I've never tried to make more nitrAtes always throwing them in the flower beds. Now if you can tell me how to get them out of my water I will send them to you. Hey I had a thought I could send you a used purigen bad and you can squeeze it out in your tank😁 No kiding how would you increase your NitrAtes for plants I've never had plants but I'm thinking about growing some in hob trays for plants on top of the tank I like that look fill the whole back wall with plants. I can go from near 0 to 20ppm in 10 to 12 days thought the plants would help with that or do they have to be all the way in the water?     

 

 

 

 

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I add fertilizer to the tank adding nitrogen which is a building block for plants hence nitrates being used up by plants.  But you hanging plants would work really well for nitrate removal.

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On 7/3/2024 at 6:57 PM, Airborne 82nd said:

I can go from near 0 to 20ppm in 10 to 12 days thought the plants would help with that or do they have to be all the way in the water?

You might be interested in this:

 

On 7/3/2024 at 2:39 PM, ange said:

Hi all, this is a bit odd but I was comparing Seachem Safe to Fritz ACCR and noticed that they both advertise removing ammonia from the water column. Before looking into this I knew that ACCR's active ingredient is Sodium Hydroxymethanesulfinate while Safe is presumably similar (the SDS states that it is a proprietary blend of sodium salts, so they're not legally required to disclose what exactly is in it). I was under the impression that they bound ammonia temporarily rather than eliminating it entirely.

Does anyone know more about this? Some of my tanks have consistent ammonia readings (<0.5 ppm) following water changes due to the ammonia present in the local water that I use to top off the tank and until now I believed that Safe only temporarily bound the ammonia while my nitrifying bacteria used that time to catch up on consuming the new food supply.

I did find one ResearchGate article about Sodium Hydroxymethanesulfinate reacting with ammonia here that got me started, however the product used was not ACCR or Safe so I'm uncertain if the findings transfer, although the active ingredient was the same disclosed for ACCR.

Speaking of @dasaltemelosguy deep dives:

 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/3/2024 at 6:57 PM, Airborne 82nd said:

do they have to be all the way in the water. Plants like the Pothos simply cut stem with a couple of leaves with a sterile sharp blade. You want the plant to grow roots adapted for water. Although some have placed plant with roots from soil and submerge in aquarium.  @Airborne 82nd

 

Edited by Tlindsey
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On 7/3/2024 at 4:12 PM, Airborne 82nd said:

It looks like your tap water is treated with cloramine when you treat your tap water you are removing the clorine leaving you with the ammonia. This sounds normal to me  ask yourself why is your BB not eating this ammonia? Or does it in a 24hr time period? I take it these tanks are cycled and your BB colony is large enough for your bioload. If I were to use these products it would be to only remove clorine or that part of cloramine and let my cycled tank do the rest. Mine will take care of (<0.5 ppm) overnight I think everyones with fish in should. I don't know about plants never cared for them. Different strokes for different folks. I don't know what you have in your tanks.

The best answer that I can give is it's weird rural municipal water. My personal tanks (on a different urban municipal supply) don't have this issue. The ammonia does get eaten within 24h as the test the next day will be back at 0, but I always have small spikes of under 0.5ppm after topping off the tanks. They're set up to require minimal water changes so that I don't spike ammonia to harmful levels, however evaporation has been increased due to the summer (these are in a greenhouse with evaporative cooling). Just trying to work with what I've got, but that means funky water lol.

On 7/3/2024 at 4:29 PM, johnnyxxl said:

My BB and plants would keep that level down.  I have trouble getting enough nitrates for my plants on a regular basis.

Only tank that it's a real issue with (potentially) are the shell dwellers since they're in a 55g with a HOB and only have a small number of plants that I can wedge into rocks that are too large for the fish to dig up. Those guys are overwhelmingly root feeders and don't take much from the water column. That tank also (by far) has the weakest colony out of the 13 that I maintain on this municipal supply.

I mostly asked because I may be able to adjust my maintenance routines if ACCR or Safe actually eliminate ammonia rather than binding it. Currently I treat with Fritz Complete or use RO, which obviously requires nothing as far as conditioning goes but comes with its own set of needs and isn't realistic for me to use long-term. The total volume of the tanks I'm working with add up to ~1,380 gallons.

On 7/3/2024 at 6:16 PM, johnnyxxl said:

I add fertilizer to the tank adding nitrogen which is a building block for plants hence nitrates being used up by plants.  But you hanging plants would work really well for nitrate removal.

Four of the tanks (1x 120g, 2x 150g, 1x640g) are pretty heavily dosed with fertilizers as they're a part of aquaponic beds. I'm mostly concerned right now because during the summer I experience more evaporation in the tanks, beds, and sumps in the 7 outdoor aquaria which means more top offs. If I can eliminate the ammonia rather than waiting ~24h for the system to catch up that would help my maintenance routine greatly. For now I've been mixing RO to avoid carbonate and ammonia buildup. Currently I lose ~5-15% of the total system volume every 3 days and I anticipate that will increase as the summer picks up.

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I don't trust that they remove ammonia but will bind it fo 24 to 48hrs. Maybe put some treated tap water in a bucket with a air stone add Dr Tims to 4ppm then treat with Seachem Safe to Fritz ACCR retest a few days clorine will go away on its own but clormine might not.

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On 7/5/2024 at 11:48 PM, Airborne 82nd said:

I don't trust that they remove ammonia but will bind it fo 24 to 48hrs. Maybe put some treated tap water in a bucket with a air stone add Dr Tims to 4ppm then treat with Seachem Safe to Fritz ACCR retest a few days clorine will go away on its own but clormine might not.

This is a great idea! Thank you.

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