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Some GH / KH Questions


cupanoodle
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Background

  • 20 Gal Long tank
  • Contains Live plants
  • Ramshorn and Malaysian Trumpet Snails
  • 1 betta and 12 rasboras
  • Tap water: PH 6.6 - GH 25 ppm - KH 0 ppm

I added one 2/5 ounce wonder shell about a week and a half back to help my snails as their shells were starting to look unhealthy. Since adding the shell the GH as slowly increased to ~300 GH. This value concerns me, do I need to lower this value? If so, I remove the shell and do 10 % water changes once a week until normal (I'm worried about shocking the fish if I lower the GH too rapidly)?

I was also having issues with my PH slowly dropping from 6.6 to 6.3 over time between water changes. Would replacing the wonder shell with some crushed coral solve the PH and GH issues. If I'm reading correctly it should slightly increase my GH to make my snails happy and maintain the PH at neutral by adding some KH buffer to the water. Am I understanding this correctly?

I was thinking about adding some crushed coral to the hang on back filter. How much should I add to that? Most of the hang on back is filled with sponge/bio rings, should I replace the bio rings with the coral? Basically how much should I add for a tank my size, I'll figure out where to add it.

 

Thank you in advance for anyone who decides to help out.

Edited by cupanoodle
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My tap water is super soft, so I have to add GH after every water change. Sometimes I also add wonder shell. And I generally eyeball it with a pump bottle. I've had the same tank have 150ppm gh to as much as 350-400ppm with no ill effects.

 

Likewise, if I had to use crushed coral, I'd just add "some" amount that I could cram in a filter and just monitor ph for a while. But I have 7 dKH out of my tap so I haven't had to deal with that - someone else may have better advice. 

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Hi @cupanoodle! Nice to meet you here on the forum.

I'll tell you what I've experienced in my 20-long. It has lots of ramshorn snails.  My water here is very hard city water. But after a while, if I don't have a wondershell or crushed coral in my tank, my KH drops to 0 and my pH begins to slide toward acidic. If I just use the wondershell, I also need to use the Alkaline Buffer periodically to keep things balanced. If I use the crushed coral, I no longer need the Alkaline Buffer. 

That being said, never of those things really seem to do much of anything for my snails. Their shells still get white stripes and look generally unwell. So, I'm going to try Tums. I saw a video where Cory recommended it to keep your snails happy. I haven't gotten any yet. They were out of stock when I did my Walmart pick-up last week, but I plan to get some this week and see if they help.

I know this isn't a very scientific explanation. I just thought I'd share my experience. Maybe it will help. Maybe not. 😉 Either way, you have a little more info to help with your decision.

Alesha (akconklin)

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I also have soft water. I add a wonder shell about every 2 weeks. When I set up the quarantine tank and put one in, you can immediately see it start to fizzle. They hold my pH from falling below about 6.6. My ramshorn snails all died but the rasboras love it. In my other tank I have shrimp which I provide with mineral junkie bites. 

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On 11/13/2020 at 6:39 PM, cupanoodle said:

Would replacing the wonder shell with some crushed coral solve the PH and GH issues. If I'm reading correctly it should slightly increase my GH to make my snails happy and maintain the PH at neutral by adding some KH buffer to the water. Am I understanding this correctly?

Yep! Increasing KH will help your pH stay neutral, or at least slightly above neutral. More KH will also protect against large swings of pH in either direction.

I also have really soft water with basically nothing in it. Out of the tap my pH is 6 and my GH and KH are 0-1. I initially tried using just crushed oyster shell to even things out, but that wasn’t enough. I imagine that crushed coral is similar in that it dissolves very slowly and while it’s great for a tank’s long term stability, it’s not going to do much in the short term. Because it works so gradually, I don’t think it really matters how much you add. Also as the water gets more neutral, it will dissolve more slowly. So it kind of evens itself out!

In addition to crushed oyster shell, I also add baking soda (which raises pH and KH) about 1/4 tsp per 5 gallons, as well as some powdered calcium carbonate. I also add minerals in some way to make sure my GH is made up of more than just calcium. Right now I’m using cichlid salts but in the future I’d probably use something like Seachem Equilibrium instead. I only started with cichlid salts because I read it on a forum somewhere. Funny how things come full circle! 😅

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Thanks everyone for the help, for the short term I'm just letting things continue with a 20% weekly water change. Will probably add crushed coral or dolomite to the hang on back to raise the KH and GH slowly after water changes. I'll also look into the salts, tums and Seachem Equilibrium, but for now I'm trying to make changes slowly since everything (except the snail shells) seems healthy.

Edited by cupanoodle
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On 11/13/2020 at 6:39 PM, cupanoodle said:

I was thinking about adding some crushed coral to the hang on back filter. How much should I add to that? Most of the hang on back is filled with sponge/bio rings, should I replace the bio rings with the coral?

I have a similar tap water scenario and I used crushed coral in my sump in a media bag. Sometimes in use it in box filters instead of bio rings, and sometimes just mixed in the substrate. Keeps the water 7.4-ish fine and I don't have to replace it much (or ever in some use-cases). Personally, I'd replace the bio rings with a similar sized bag of coral (but rinse it first).

Baking soda will, I believe, move the KH much faster than crushed coral, and will need to be replenished after water changes. In my opinion, crushed coral is the easiest solution that requires the least effort.

The coral will dissolve as it needs to and reach a point of stabilization, so any amount will work, but the less you put in, the sooner you might have to replace it, but it lasts a good long while.

I put about 2 lb in a media bag in a sump in a 150 gallon and it's barely reduced that amount in any way I can see visually after maybe 3 or 4 months. The water has been rock solid in terms of PH/KH. I have a similar amount in a 40-gallon water changing vessel where I pre-make water, and that's been the same. Buffers water by adding KH, reduces slowly. 

Now, the PH could drop a tad when you do a water change if you don't buffer your change water, but depending on how much new water you put in, that could be negligible. I would test that just to see what you're working with and go from there (if you decide to use coral).

Just as an aside, crushed coral with aragonite in it will give you a higher PH that plain old crushed coral (around 8.0 in my experience). So depending on what you're shooting for, just know that aspect and difference. Ive done fine with TopFin coral from Pet Smart.

Coral is a slower to raise the KH/PH than other products and methods, but I think this is more a benefit than a problem. 

Edited by tolstoy21
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7 hours ago, cupanoodle said:

Seachem Equilibrium, but for now I'm trying to make changes slowly since everything (except the snail shells) seems healthy.

Equilibrium will raise GH but not KH. So if you think you're good as far as GH levels, I'd hold off on adding that.

Also, my years spent debugging computer systems and code have taught me to change one aspect of any system at a time and then wait to see those results before introducing a second change. Otherwise it's impossible to know what affected the outcome without just repeating all your steps/changes forever forward, replicating and codifying into procedure the unneeded ones.

Edited by tolstoy21
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