How to use seachem acid buffer and alkaline buffer together to achieve desired PH

[Eric G]

My PH and KH hardness from the tap is low. I have been using seachem alkaline buffer which has been working to raise it. However what is the best way to keep a balanced pH so the fish stay happy. Do I use acid and alkaline buffer in conjunction to achieve a constant pH level and do I need to do anything after each water change?

Edited August 30 by Eric G

[TOtrees]

Tough question. Most experienced aquarists will recommend against modifying or "chasing" a specific pH or kH value using chemicals. You're FAR better to either a) work with the water you have or b) use something like crushed coral to gently and slowly and persistently raise the values. 

What are your actual values, and what measurement method are you using (what brand of kit, strips or liquid)? What's your water source? One tank or many? How long has it been set up? Can you describe it: size, substrate, contents, maintenance, livestock?

That being said, in answer to your question, you would need to mix each batch of new water (ie water changes) the same, each time. Eg if you're adding 5 gals to a 20 gal tank, you would mix the 5 gals the same each time. Alternatively, you could add unmixed water then add the chems directly to the tank at the same time, but the amount you add would be for the 5 gals, not the 20. 

Edited August 30 by TOtrees

[Pepere]

Seachems advice on using alkaline buffer and acid buffer is confusing at best….

 

reading deeper they eventually admit that acid buffer will react with the carbonates in alkaline buffer to deplete the kh and release co2…

my guess is it is a very expensive means of co2 supplementation..

A constant ph value  if you have plants and lights is  unlikely.  I really don’t see a constant ph as a desirable goal.  Natural bodies of water do not have constant ph…

 

I have very soft water myself.  gh and Kh of 1 degree hardness.  I supplement with Equilibrium to raise GH to around 4-6 degrees hardness and Alkalinity buffer to raise KH to 4-6 degrees.

[JettsPapa]

On 8/30/2023 at 8:40 AM, TOtrees said:

Tough question. Most experienced aquarists will recommend against modifying or "chasing" a specific pH or kH value using chemicals. You're FAR better to either a) work with the water you have or b) use something like crushed coral to gently and slowly and persistently raise the values. 

This.

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/30/2023 at 6:57 AM, Pepere said:

Seachems advice on using alkaline buffer and acid buffer is confusing at best….

Yep..... And it's not great to have that.

My advice (I use this stuff) is to keep it simple. I use the alkalinity buffer in case my KH drops.

The amount I add is very minimal, if I even use it. I don't do a ratio and I run small scale tests to gauge how much I need to use with my tap water in a bucket outside of the tank.

You shouldn't be buffering the tank to get it where you want, but you're buffering the water for water changes!!! If you're trying to play with the tank chemistry itself, it's likely it will swing too much and cause stress. Doing it to the water change water (smaller volume and you can measure it clearly) will give you better results.

On 8/30/2023 at 6:02 AM, Eric G said:

Do I use acid and alkaline buffer in conjunction to achieve a constant pH level and do I need to do anything after each water change?

Step 1 is to measure your tap and compare that to your tank. (Please feel free to share these results)

The next step is to run a sample test using tap water in a bucket, monitor the changes over 3-5 days.

Once you have that result, you can scale up.

I use 2-3 scoops per bucket. I count the buckets per water change, add that in.

Don't mess with the buffers without a quality liquid KH test kit. You'd want to be able to verify anything you're using is working properly over time. I had my KH climb on me too high because I wasn't monitoring. Same thing with GH. It's just good practice to go slow, always test. And always verify. One a month, once a week. Just make sure you check and keep a log.

[Pepere]

On 8/30/2023 at 1:30 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

 

You shouldn't be buffering the tank to get it where you want, but you're buffering the water for water changes!!! If you're trying to play with the tank chemistry itself, it's likely it will swing too much and cause stress. Doing it to the water change water (smaller volume and you can measure it clearly) will give you better results.

I sort of agree.  If you have 1-2 degree of kh in your tank with livestock in it you dont want to pop it up to 4-6 at one shot…

I maintain mine at 4-6.  When I do a water change of 15 gallons on my 29 gallon tank I add a little less than a level teaspoon in a quart of water and shake.  I then trickle it in near my python slowly as I fill the tank..

 

this gets the replacement 15 gallons pretty close to 4 or 5 degrees KH..

On a monthly basis I test tank GH and KH and add if level is close to 4 degrees.  If 6 degrees, I might use a bit less next water change..

[JChristophersAdventures]

@Eric G The general thrust of the advice given above is sound... the main point being to think carefully before embarking on (or continuing on) a course that is very difficult, time consuming and with a significant risk of failure. I would, while daily testing your water, add the crushed coral (this can be done to the substrate, in a cannister or HOB filter, or simply in a media bag dropped (hidden behind something if you prefer) into the tank.

This will gradually fix your problem and stress the fish less. Every tenth (.1) change in PH is significant for fish to adjust to... a swing of just 1.0 in a very short time is likely going to lead to illness and loses. You are more likely to avoid such swings using crushed coral - from the Aquarium Co-Op website:

CRUSHED CORAL -

• Raises pH
• Increases KH to Buffer pH
• Adds Some Hardness to Water

Crushed coral is a great tool for raising the pH of your water. We use it at 1 pound of crushed coral per 10 gallons of water when mixed in with our gravel. Crushed coral dissolves continuously over time. The lower your pH is, the faster it dissolves. As the pH rises, it slows down how fast the coral dissolves. Crushed coral adds a bit of hardness to the water and it significantly boosts KH which buffers pH from swinging.

Crushed coral inside the aquarium may need to be replaced every 1-2 years depending on how low the pH of the tap water is.

If using crushed coral in a filter, it will dissolve faster. This means you'll usually use smaller amounts, but replace it more frequently. Replacing crushed coral after 1-3 months is most common.

Hope that helps.

 

[Pepere]

On 8/30/2023 at 3:00 PM, JChristophersAdventures said:

Every tenth (.1) change in PH is significant for fish to adjust to... a swing of just 1.0 in a very short time is likely going to lead to illness and loses. You are more likely to avoid such swings using crushed coral

Well, consider that you have tank water with KH raised to 6 degrees of hardness with crushed coral, and your tap water has 1 degree of hardness, and you do a 50% water change… your kh has dropped 2.5 degrees of hardness.  Now if you are concerned with swings upward and want slow change from crushed coral, what do you do about the rapid change from a water change?
 

using Alkalinity buffer, my kh stays well within 1 degree of hardness…

 

and crushed coral adds Calcium to the water but provides no magnesium…. Calcium magnesium balance is sort of important for plant growth..

and again with a water change your gh will drop down if you have soft water.  Plants continually work to optimize for current conditions…. Taking energy and resources away from growth.  One tactic to minimize algae is to keep warer chemistry stable with minimal change allowing the plants to grow well to outcompete Algae..

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/30/2023 at 10:56 AM, Pepere said:

If you have 1-2 degree of kh in your tank with livestock in it you dont want to pop it up to 4-6 at one shot…

I maintain mine at 4-6.  When I do a water change of 15 gallons on my 29 gallon tank I add a little less than a level teaspoon in a quart of water and shake.  I then trickle it in near my python slowly as I fill the tank..

100%

If you have to make major jumps, then you simply need to take time to get the tank where it needs to be.  It might take weeks, adding a little bit once a week and letting the fish adapt over time if you're doing some seriously big changes.  At that point, using a buffered substrate is very likely a better option.

I have my tap at 3 KH,  I bump it up to ~4-6 just to make sure it doesn't crash on me.  I try to keep it over 60 ppm and closer to 80 ppm as much as possible.