Green spot algae and green hair algae, I'm getting tired...

[riioKen]

Help needed for getting algae under control. I Rescaped the tank due to hair algae and GSA. I replaced the substrate with a rich one (Tropica Aquasoil), planted alot more densely, I'm injecting alot more CO2 (CO2 starts 1.5h before light goes on, half photoperiod I have 30mgl,  at end the photoperiod is around 40mgl) and as ferts I'm using APT 3 complete daily at recommended dosage.
Water params:
Ammonia/nitrites: 0
Nitrate <10ppm
Po4: 0.25mgl
GH: 10
Kh: 3
Ph 7.5
pH after injecting CO2: 6.3/.4
Water change at the end of the week: 50%
Light: Chihiros wrgb 2 slim60 at 60% for 8h (with 30m ramp up)
It's 1 week that I use excel daily at recommended dosage.
The filter is oase Biomaster thermo 600 with 4kg of Seachem matrix and 250ml of purigen. 

New plants bought 1 week ago (some are melting due transition to under water):
Rotala marcrandra(some melting, some not), rotala Wallichi, rotala rotundifolia(melting), rotala h'ra, rotala orange juice (melt ended, I see new growth), cryptocoryne flamingo(melting),
Bucephalandra Kedagang purple(I see holes in leaves, probably melting slower due to its slowness), hygrophila araguaia, limnophila hippuridoides/aromatica red

The one that comes from the old scape:
Althernathera reicki (has GSA and hair algae on leaves), nymphea red lotus (has GSA on leaves), egeria densa(the growth exploded), Bacopa caroliniana (sparse GSA on old growth) and montecarlo (hair algae).

I was thinking doing 2 thing
- cut off in fertilization, and use recommended dosage every other day OR
- buy seachem phosphorus and reach 1ppm of po4.

Any suggestions?
 

[Mmiller2001]

How long ago did you replace the substrate?

[riioKen]

On 8/2/2023 at 12:57 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

How long ago did you replace the substrate?

I rescaped the tank the 11 July, almost a month ago (I dealed with the initial nutrients leeches with 20% water changes daily for 1 week, now I'm doing it weekly), then the 21 July I planted the second batch of plants. The plant mass is very close to 80% of the tank (but most of them are still small and adapting probably)

Edited August 2, 2023 by riioKen

[Mmiller2001]

Honestly, I wouldn’t change anything too much. That soil is so new and is throwing a lot of nutrients into the water column. I would just keep up good heavy water changes and only reduce your fertilizer by a quarter or so. You could probably drop your light intensity 10% and ride it out until the substrate matures..

Edited August 2, 2023 by Mmiller2001

[riioKen]

On 8/2/2023 at 4:18 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

Honestly, I wouldn’t change anything too much. That soil is so new and is throwing a lot of nutrients into the water column.

So instead of 2 pump and half (2.5ml), around a pump and half (1.5ml)? And decrease the light to 50%

 

It makes sense because, I had the same problem before without aquasoil (GSA and gha) and inert substrate and the fertilization routine was the same (2.5ml, same light intensity). Then I decided to use an heavy based root fertilization routine and but now I didn't changed the column routine, honestly I would like to use root tabs after 3 months because I want a leaner approach in column (less growths, less trims, deeper colour on certain plants).

 

Tell me If you like this plan:

- I'll decrease the light intensity to 50%

- decrease fertilization to 1 pump and half (1.5ml) (GSA and gha seems not caused due to lack of nutrients, it's almost impossible to have it with a new aqua soil + column ferts)

- I'll continue to dose daily seachem excel at suggested dosage.

- wait 1-2 weeks, I'll continue my weekly water change, with vacuum of the substrate with a Turkey Blaster, and remove every GSA from glass and hair algae from hardscape (should I trim affected leaves? or try spot dosing? I'm sure my montecarlo doesn't like spot dosing, a piece turned yellow after the treatment)

 

After 2 week I'll increase light to 55% (If algae are under control), and wait a week for deficiency (probably 1 week is too little time for showing deficiency) if nothing shows up (even algae, I'll continue to increase light), if I see deficiency (holes in leaves, rot leaves, yellowish, and so on, I'll add .5ml of ferts)

 

What do you think?

[Mmiller2001]

Sounds good. From my experience, GDA comes when my light is a bit too high when I’m running higher NO3. If I get GSA, I raise PO4. I also remove any leaves with algae and struggling leaves. 

And oh I personally would stop the Excel. It seems to weaken.the plants a bit and plants struggle.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Mmiller2001

[riioKen]

On 8/2/2023 at 4:51 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

GDA

Seems that I don't have GDA, but only GSA and GHA. 

I have some EI dry ferts, but I never used them, I have "Phosphates of potassium (KH2PO4), probably I can do a bottle of only po4 this way and dose when needed. Right?

[Mmiller2001]

On 8/2/2023 at 1:09 AM, riioKen said:

Seems that I don't have GDA, but only GSA and GHA

I read GDA algae for some reason. That’s probably light related in conjunction with the new soil. When I first swapped to an aqua soil, I got it so bad. It just went away once the soil settled down.

 

On 8/2/2023 at 1:09 AM, riioKen said:

have some EI dry ferts, but I never used them, I have "Phosphates of potassium (KH2PO4), probably I can do a bottle of only po4 this way and dose when needed. Right?

Definitely. New Aqua soils pull PO4 out of the water quite quickly for several months. 

[riioKen]

On 8/2/2023 at 1:39 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Definitely. New Aqua soils pull PO4 out of the water quite quickly for several months

Ok, so for now, even if I have GSA, I shouldn't dose KH2PO4 (rn my po4 test says 0.25mgl with nitrates<10ppm), because the soil is leeching it, I got it correctly?

[Mmiller2001]

On 8/2/2023 at 7:15 AM, riioKen said:

Ok, so for now, even if I have GSA, I shouldn't dose KH2PO4 (rn my po4 test says 0.25mgl with nitrates<10ppm), because the soil is leeching it, I got it correctly?

It’s leeching ammonia.

I would shoot for these numbers. Dennis Wong recommends a middle ground between EI and ADA approaches. It’s lean, but not too lean.

 

[riioKen]

On 8/2/2023 at 4:39 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

It’s leeching ammonia.

That's why my nitrate are a bit higher (usually I had 5ppm with inert substrate, now almost 10ppm)

 

On 8/2/2023 at 4:39 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

It’s lean, but not too lean.

In facts Dennis Wong aim for a "nitrate limitation" 

 

About aim for those nutrients, well I should fertilize at recommended dosage no?

 

If I continue with water change 50% weekly, 50% light intensity, and continue my cleaning routine, do you think that I'll be able to fight back the algae? Without messing around with the fertilization? Maybe as I said, I should add pure po4 in the tank due to GSA?

[Mmiller2001]

On 8/2/2023 at 10:43 AM, riioKen said:

If I continue with water change 50% weekly, 50% light intensity, and continue my cleaning routine, do you think that I'll be able to fight back the algae? Without messing around with the fertilization? Maybe as I said, I should add pure po4 in the tank due to GSA?

100%. That’s the trick to solving most algae problems. Keep it consistent while you get a healthy plant mass.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Mmiller2001

[riioKen]

On 8/2/2023 at 6:45 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

100%. That’s the trick to solving most algae problems. Keep it consistent while you get a healthy plant mass.

About GSA (which seems related to low CO2 and/or low po4), where I live is summer, I have the tank cooled down thanks to 6 fans, they reduce the temp to 26° from about 32° ambient temp. Due to very high surface agitation, I had CO2 injected at very high rate (6-8 bubbles per second for a 20g, which in return gave me pH 6.4 with kh3), today the fans were off for a long time, as the day was quite cool, it wasn't very hot, the pH dropped to 6.1... I was gassing all the fishies... Luckily I was at home and immediately turned on fans and air pump(which usually I don't use, even at night) and decreased the CO2, so the CO2 isn't for sure too low ahahaha. Now I have prepared a bottle of 500ml with only po4 (K3PO4), with the help of Rotala butterfly, I added 12 grams of K3PO4 to the 500ml bottles, and dosed 5ml (should be 1ppm of po4) directly in the water. 

 

I tested the water before, around 0.25ppm po4, after how many hours since dosing should I test water?

[Mmiller2001]

A couple of hours should be fine.

[riioKen]

On 8/2/2023 at 8:15 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

A couple of hours should be fine.

I figured out why i have this algae bloom.

My tank is a 20g (80x30x40cm) and the filter is an oase biomaster thermo 600 (a filter that has 14x stronger flow than tank litres), BUT last time i cleaned the pre filter was almost a month ago... yes im stupid, i was highly focused on the tank due to rescaping, planting and daily water changes  (i had a fungal infection spiked that i have resolved in few days thanks to kanaplex in food) that i completely forgot about the prefilter. This morning i decided to do my weekly maintenance, but i saw the biofilm on the surface of the tank, honestly i was a bit shocked, considering that i have a surface skimmer attached to the filter intake, but this morning the water did not flow into the skimmer, but remained outside and the skimmer dry, as if it had no "attraction". 

From there I understood that the problem was the filter which was very dirty, in fact I cleaned the prefilter, by now I had another planted tank inside the chamber, I rinsed the sponges and also cleaned the main body of the filter (but it was clean) and as soon as I put it back on, the bio film disappeared in 10 minutes and I realized that even the flow in the aquarium was back as strong as before... 

I know im an idiot, i literally filled my tank with algae... i plan to do 3 weekly water changes (last wc, in the weekend dedicated to remove algae and syphon the substrate) and continue the plan that i have said a few comments ago.

Edited August 5, 2023 by riioKen

[Mmiller2001]

On 8/5/2023 at 7:03 PM, Dutchstyle said:

Plant aquariums are so simple, but if you don't want to learn.

What?

[riioKen]

On 8/6/2023 at 3:03 AM, Dutchstyle said:

Plant aquariums are so simple, but if you don't want to learn

I'm a bit confused about your statement

[reefhugger]

On 8/5/2023 at 12:26 PM, riioKen said:

I figured out why i have this algae bloom.

 

This is a fascinating discussion.  I've been fighting GSA for months with limited success, so when I saw your post I got a cup of coffee and a comfy chair.  I'll have to read through it again several times  I'm grateful for members of this forum like Mmiller2001 who take the time so share detailed knowledge. 

I think your new tank is lovely...nice mix of color and texture.  What is that bit of pink on the righthand side?

[riioKen]

On 8/6/2023 at 12:14 PM, reefhugger said:

I'm grateful for members of this forum like Mmiller2001 who take the time so share detailed knowledge

Yes, I'll never thank him (and people like Mmiller2001) enough.

 

On 8/6/2023 at 12:14 PM, reefhugger said:

I think your new tank is lovely...nice mix of color and texture.  What is that bit of pink on the righthand side?

If you are referring the one behind the little cryptocoryne flamingo, Althernathera reickii. 

[reefhugger]

On 8/6/2023 at 6:19 AM, riioKen said:

Yes, I'll never thank him (and people like Mmiller2001) enough.

 

If you are referring the one behind the little cryptocoryne flamingo, Althernathera reickii. 

It was the cryptocoryre flamingo....  thanks!

[riioKen]

On 8/6/2023 at 3:22 PM, Dutchstyle said:

What I mean to say is that Mmiller has no idea about aquarium plants. The same false knowledge is always repeated.

Well, it's a forum, we can share our opinions on how to maintain a good planted tank. Offending people who make themselves available for helping others is not nice.

Edited August 6, 2023 by riioKen

[Mmiller2001]

On 8/6/2023 at 7:22 AM, Dutchstyle said:

What? What I mean to say is that Mmiller has no idea about aquarium plants. The same false knowledge is always repeated.

Please explain what I’m saying that’s incorrect.

[Dutchstyle]

For a beautiful plant aquarium you do not need any water changes, fertilizers or any filters. The plants in most aquariums have no chance to grow at all, because they do not have any nutrients. ...Every normal filter works oxidatively and converts the ammonium into nitrate in a short time. But plants need ammonium. The filter manufacturers don't know this. Water changes remove nutrients from the plants, provide excess oxygen and remove the humic substances that protect the fish (also present in Lake Tanganyika and Lake Malawi, but not as much). If there is an excess of oxygen (too much light or strong water changes), the plant is stressed and almost suffocates from it. You can see it in the oxygen filaments). Normally, the oxygen dissolves in the water immediately. 

[Dutchstyle]

To put it briefly. For a beautiful plant aquarium with small fish you only need 5cm high sandy substrate (1mm diameter). Normal light. Ready. Shocked. I tested it.  Don't worry, there is enough Co2, NPK and Co. available. Every living space is warm enough as well. Except for discus and cichlids, they don't need filters. More than 50 percent of the filter capacity is taken over by the biofilms in the aquarium. The substrate is oxygen-free and reduces substances to plant nutrients. 

[Mmiller2001]

On 8/6/2023 at 8:00 AM, Dutchstyle said:

For a beautiful plant aquarium you do not need any water changes

When you have a new aqua Soil throwing large amounts of ammonia you need to do water changes. Not to mention, Tropica (the aqua soil he's using) also instructs the need for water changes until the excess ammonia subsides. This is a high energy tank where we can increase CO2 and light much higher. Higher light in the presence of excess ammonia causes algae. It appears I do know something and I'm sharing this information.

 

On 8/6/2023 at 8:00 AM, Dutchstyle said:

The plants in most aquariums have no chance to grow at all, because they do not have any nutrients

That's why we add nutrients.

Maybe you thought he was trying the Walstad method?