Shortbody what do you do ?

[pictish_samurai]

Who has breed shortbody fish what do you do with them .

- Keep them 

- Cull them 

- Breed more of them 

Here's my orange Venezuelan cory  in my breeding colony

[Guppysnail]

I have not bred short body fish however I watched a video (that I cannot find sorry) by an aquatic veterinarian discussing the goldfish bred for short bodies. 
when the bodies become shorter the organs sometimes get positioned differently because they do not have the abdominal cavity space to accommodate them. This sometimes puts pressure on the swim bladder or puts it in an incorrect position.

Often these fish live long full healthy lives but occasionally it leads to issues over its lifetime. If they can be bred because it apparently sometimes causes them to not be able to carry eggs correctly or leads to birthing complications that jeopardize the parent fish, repeat breeding will show more abnormalities and birth defects in offspring if it’s genetics. Sometimes it’s not genetic and a one off due to developmental reasons then the short body will not show in offspring. 
I watched this video a few years back so all this is loose info from my memory. I’ll continue to look for the video. 
I do not allow birth defects to breed. When I was doing guppies I had a mismatch community tanks m/f separated to avoid birth. I would “cull” by allowing any birth defect fish who had good quality of life to live in those tanks. 
 

I’ll tag @Odd Duck and @Coluwho can speak to birth defects from an educated standpoint rather than my questionable uneducated memory. 
 

[Colu]

On 8/2/2023 at 11:33 AM, Guppysnail said:

I have not bred short body fish however I watched a video (that I cannot find sorry) by an aquatic veterinarian discussing the goldfish bred for short bodies. 
when the bodies become shorter the organs sometimes get positioned differently because they do not have the abdominal cavity space to accommodate them. This sometimes puts pressure on the swim bladder or puts it in an incorrect position.

Often these fish live long full healthy lives but occasionally it leads to issues over its lifetime. If they can be bred because it apparently sometimes causes them to not be able to carry eggs correctly or leads to birthing complications that jeopardize the parent fish, repeat breeding will show more abnormalities and birth defects in offspring if it’s genetics. Sometimes it’s not genetic and a one off due to developmental reasons then the short body will not show in offspring. 
I watched this video a few years back so all this is loose info from my memory. I’ll continue to look for the video. 
I do not allow birth defects to breed. When I was doing guppies I had a mismatch community tanks m/f separated to avoid birth. I would “cull” by allowing any birth defect fish who had good quality of life to live in those tanks. 
 

I’ll tag @Odd Duck and @Coluwho can speak to birth defects from an educated standpoint rather than my questionable uneducated memory. 
 

Short body fish can have multiple health issues are more prone to spinal deformities issues with the organs and swim bladder because there organs are more compressed short body fish are more prone to Gill deformities and facial deformities for example goldfish with short bodies have very high incidence of swim bladder 

Edited August 2 by Colu

[Odd Duck]

It is quite rare for short-bodied fish to live a normal lifespan.  It is very similar for short-bodied animals of other species, also.  Most brachycephalic dogs are more or less short-bodied animals - dogs with short faces like pugs, Boston terriers, French bulldogs, American lines of English bulldogs, etc.  They are extremely prone to health problems that rarely occur in normal bodied animals.

There was a very recent study that showed French bulldogs (probably a pretty close to equivalent to a short-bodied fish) average only 4.5 years.  The study showed averages for many different breeds, but that was kind of the standout by being very different than what most sources say.  I 100% believe the study results.  Frenchies by far are the most common dog I have to euthanize young for breed related health problems.  English bulldogs would likely be a close second or even first if they were more common.

I would never, ever, deliberately breed a trait into an animal that would shorten its lifespan or cause other increased health problems.  Years ago, even after successfully breeding veil tails as a “test run”, I elected to NOT start breeding fancy Betta splendens because of the health problems that were cropping up in many lines.  I just couldn’t do that to an animal.  They’re gorgeous, but those massive, side, fluttery tails are such a burden for them they are very prone to self-mutilation.  There’s no way they are comfortable since it’s highly likely they are self-mutilating from pain.

I know this will be controversial, but this is a hill I will die on.  I think it’s cruel to deliberately breed animals that can’t function normally.