Algae issue, Lean, EI, CO2 injected... I want to change substrate.

[riioKen]

Hi guys,

I'm struggling to keep a clean tank, this week I did 2 water changes 50% BUT still, algae are here remembering to me "who's the boss".

 

After months of okaish result with lean dosing (apt 3 Complete) I have removed salvinia minima from the tank, after that in the tank, I had an explosion of GSA, GDA and Filamentous. After a month of water changes and manual remove I decided to try EI route, and only after 4 days I noticed and explosion in plants growth but at the same time, in algae growth (and all my red plants became green). 2 days ago I did a 50% water change, trimmed all affected plants, and now I'm not using any ferts (but I think there still residue of EI).

 

My tank is full of stems plants.

I'm thinking in change substrate (it is inert) to tropica aqua soil, and use apt 3 (or apt zero) due the "leaner" approach. What do you think?

[Mmiller2001]

I think you should pick any method you want and then stick with it. All of these methods work well and usually problems occur when the tank is under filtered, low CO2 or a combination of both.

Here’s my tank 

EI

30ppm NO3

10ppm PO4

35ppm k

.45ppm Fe as proxy 

5.2dGH

0dKH

1.5pH drop

Inert pool filter sand

Every time you change the tank parameters, plants must adjust and will suffer temporarily usually leading to algae. Know your source water so you can adjust nutrients properly. Don’t make drastic changes. There’s no secret recipe in nutrient methods. Just get in there, trim when needed and keep the tank well maintained.

[Pepere]

From what I have been reading and studying, as @Mmiller2001 touches on plants tend to optimize their leaves for the conditions they find themselves in.

when changes occur the plants tend to work to reconfigure themselves expending energy that otherwise would have been used for growth.  Newer leaves tend to be reconfigured more than older leaves.  Older leaves can be abandoned by the plant and the abandoned leaf can start leaching waste organics from the margins that Algae loves.  Ever notice older leaves tend to have the algae while new growth has less or none?

When you removed the floating plants, you possibly increased the anount of light getting to the plants.  You also removed a sponge for nutrients so in essence increased nutrients as a practical matter, and the plants might well have started reconfiguring for nutrient and light change and Algae took advantage of the situation..

Then you instituted another significant change in dosing…

 

I would also share that I noticed significant improvements when I installed injected co2, again when I increased the co2 to 30 ppm, and again when I installed canister filters and spray bars that significantly increased and improved flow pattern…. I also noted improve ent when I started weekly 50% water change which I see you are doing, but mention it for the benefit of beginners who might read this later..

Does your tank have co2? I am not saying it is absolutely necessary, but it would be good to know.  And what do you have for flow, filtration?

[riioKen]

On 7/7/2023 at 11:49 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

All of these methods work well and usually problems occur when the tank is under filtered, low CO2 or a combination of both.

As filtration I have Oase Biomaster Thermo 600 (suitable for aquarium 600 litres, while mine is 85), the drop checker is light green).

 

On 7/8/2023 at 1:50 AM, Pepere said:

Older leaves can be abandoned by the plant and the abandoned leaf can start leaching waste organics from the margins that Algae loves.

That's true, I have algae on older leaves, but after 1-2 week algae start to appear on top too. This week I did a very intensive trim session, and I didn't fertilize after and cut light 50%, the tank seems "clean" of algae. 

 

So you are suggesting to me, that is a waste of time and money change the substrate with an aquasoil? A lot of red plant grower use it, and seems widely suggested ( I didn't have this knowledge when I established the tank)

[Mmiller2001]

On 7/8/2023 at 12:59 AM, riioKen said:

85), the drop checker is light green).

It should be yellow green.

[Pepere]

On 7/8/2023 at 2:59 AM, riioKen said:

So you are suggesting to me, that is a waste of time and money change the substrate with an aquasoil?

No. Not a waste of time and money, but it will be another change that the plants will need to adjust to. It will not likely be an instantaneous game changer.

If you undertake this change  afterwards work at keeping conditions stable and continue with manual removal of algae, trimming removing dying algae covered leaves etc topping replanting new growth etc and not making new changes… in essence, give plants time to optimize to new conditions and start to thrive in them. Healthy thriving plants are the best defense against algae growth.

while waiting for them to adjust to the conditions, removal of algae manually helps.  The less algae you have in the tank, the less it will propagate.

I am not a fan of the liquid carbons personally.  I never really saw that use of them seemed to do much of anything for me, and the health risks are concerning. I gave up on daily dosing.  For a while I did dose after a cleanup session and water change with the idea it might help with knocking down dislodged fragments floating around that were not removed with a water change.  I did have more results with spot dosing hydrogen peroxide with filter turned off and turning lights off after dosing until foaming ceased and then turning filter back on.  Ie 15- 20 minutes foaming time…

[riioKen]

On 7/8/2023 at 10:40 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

It should be yellow green

I'll adjust it now and check closely fish and drop checker. Thanks.

 

On 7/8/2023 at 10:49 AM, Pepere said:

No. Not a waste of time and money, but it will be another change that the plants will need to adjust to. It will not likely be an instantaneous game changer.

No, I know that it will take some time, even months.

 

On 7/8/2023 at 10:49 AM, Pepere said:

If you undertake this change  afterwards work at keeping conditions stable and continue with manual removal of algae, trimming removing dying algae covered leaves etc topping replanting new growth etc and not making new changes… in essence, give plants time to optimize to new conditions and start to thrive in them. Healthy thriving plants are the best defense against algae growth.

The idea is: next week I'll buy Tropica Aquarium Soil (around 12-15 litres, the tank is 80x30x40, 5cm substrate should be good or more?), I'll put it in a big container with aquarium water, and do water changes every other day for a week or so. Then I'll move fish out in a 30L tank for a few hours, and syphon the gravel out of the tank. Then I remove every plant that I have, and dip them in a solution with hydrogen peroxide for 15-30m (I don't know if is too much time or not), then I do a deep clean of tank, place the new gravel back in (after it leeches initial ammonia), place the plants, add water, wait an hour or two, put the fish back in. But there are some things that I don't like, how can I acclimate the fish? I use tap water, will the fish be affected about the "new tank water" even if I use Seachem Prime? About colonial bacterial, shouldn't be a problem, inside the filter I have 4 litres of Seachem matrix and 3-4 sponges very large.

 

About dosing excel... I never had any effect, even spot dosing. 0 effects all the time.

Edited July 8 by riioKen

[Pepere]

As an alternative, I use mesh bags that I put a little aquasoil in and roll in to a long burrito.  I have excavated an area of substrate and buried the aquasoil in and recover. I place bags strategically in the tank. I then plant near the bags.  The roots will make their way to the bag and enter the mesh…. The bags contain the soil reducing the mess of pulling and replanting…

 

rather than dipping  plants in peroxide, I like to soak mine overnight in straight carbonated water and replant in morning if I am going to pull plants.  It effectively kills algae too and the plant absorbs the co2 giving it a boost.