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Mutt guppies 2.0 not as pretty as the originals!


PineSong
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I'm wondering if any other 'mutt guppy' breeders have had similar results?

Although they aren't yet old enough to be fully colored up, my 2nd generation mutt guppies are old enough now to say that this year's mutts are not as attractive as their parents by a long shot. 

My initial mutt guppies had a wide range of tails from short forked Endler tails to long double swords, and green, blue, pink and orange colors on their bodies, with Endler genes showing up in round spots or black dashes here and there. Here are some:

Back in February I picked my favorite males and five random healthy females to create the next generation. In addition to the mutt males and females, I did have one ginga sulphureus (solid yellow) female in the mix. 

So far, many gen 2 males are very plain with silver bodies and just a single black spot or partly colored single tail fin to count as color. The "best" ones you might look at and say that someone, somewhere in the family tree was an Endler.

Youtubers Aquadiction have several videos showing the results of their second generation crosses and it does seem like the second generation being less glamorous is not unusual. 

 

 

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On 6/2/2023 at 6:39 AM, Guppysnail said:

I’m guessing here but eventually I would think over generations the dominant genes would win out and that the more colorful unique genes might be recessive?

 

I'm sure that's the case with some of our less-seen but preferred colors in guppies, like the pinks and greens. It gives me extra appreciation for the work done by serious breeders who are standardizing multiple physical characteristics of a new strain at one time--tail size, tail shape, other fins, body pattern, body color, tail color etc. So many things to vary in each batch.

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So far, our second generation is showing as pretty as the parents.  Second or third batch of second generation are still showing up too.  It will be interesting when third generation shows up.  I've only seen one baby with a deformed growth out of hundreds now.

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guppies are like a box of chocolates, you never know whats going to show up in the fry.... to get stronger colors like the male you picked, you'll probably want to breed some of the female fry back to the father. its rumored guppies like banjo music.....🙈

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On 6/2/2023 at 1:32 PM, redfish said:

So far, our second generation is showing as pretty as the parents.  Second or third batch of second generation are still showing up too.  It will be interesting when third generation shows up.  I've only seen one baby with a deformed growth out of hundreds now.

Would love to see pics of your generations. I’ve never seen deformities in my mutt guppies, either.

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I separate my endlers (and I now have 2 tanks of endler/guppy crosses) at the beginning of the season (May/June) and again in November.

Single top "swords" go together, single bottom swords go together, and the traditional double endler tails go together.

Then I break down by color, and label which tanks they originally came from to minimize inbreeding.

All males that aren't mature enough for me to be confident on tail shape and colors, go to the generic "bachelor tank"

I select my most attractive males that are similar in colors to go to the pond for the summer. Any fry who overwintered help diversity in genetics 😅

I select my females from the breeder dividers where I put females as soon as I can identify, and attempt to maintain a few who aren't pregnant from tank mates.

At the end of the season (October/November/very early December) I catch as many as I can and sort them again.

If I want to make stripes and the dark spots stronger, I look through the culls in the turtle pond.

Nature uses those markings to increase predator avoidance, so once a year (or more) I look for higher quality males that evolved by surviving turtle predation, and that also boosts overall genetic strength in my breeding stock, while improving both color and shape.

Give your plain 3rd gen a little more time. I keep my tanks <72° F, so my males can take 9 months to fully color up.

I had a trio of platinums... or so I thought.

When I went to add them to the 9 platinum blue female endlers I bought, the boys surprised me with big black false eyes on their bodies....at a year old.🤔

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@PineSong I’m really bad at taking pics but here are a few.

The dad is the larger in the center, kids to his left.

IMG_4825.jpeg.95a2e201087d2e4fedc83489e7296ead.jpeg

bigger grouping 

IMG_4826.jpeg.5aba67015726d34d7cd6cdaaddcd41c1.jpeg
 

and a larger group 

IMG_4844.jpeg.8a74a77f0ac8cde73e31f97e1ce9b9b3.jpeg

 

The camera doesn’t really capture the colors properly.  They are more red than orange in person.We really need to bring some of these to the LFS.    
 

p.s.  Don’t judge the algae on the glass 🤣. There are Oto’s and a snail in there somewhere eating away!  I’m really surprised any algae can grow with all the guppy grass competing.  This tank “had” (hopefully) duckweed in it too and the algae still grows.

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On 6/2/2023 at 11:31 PM, Torrey said:

Give your plain 3rd gen a little more time. I keep my tanks <72° F, so my males can take 9 months to fully color up.

I had a trio of platinums... or so I thought.

When I went to add them to the 9 platinum blue female endlers I bought, the boys surprised me with big black false eyes on their bodies....at a year old.🤔

Good point,Torrey. I went to visit my coworker’s tank the other day, which is stocked entirely with male fish I bred. I was surprised to see he had a very dramatically colored male guppy with a crazy long dorsal— I know the fish didn’t look like that when I gave it to him! And my ginga seem to continue coloring up and growing tail fin flair for at least 9 months if not longer. I will wait and see if anything else happens to these little duds.

On 6/3/2023 at 10:34 PM, redfish said:

@PineSong I’m really bad at taking pics but here are a few.

The dad is the larger in the center, kids to his left.

IMG_4825.jpeg.95a2e201087d2e4fedc83489e7296ead.jpeg

bigger grouping 

IMG_4826.jpeg.5aba67015726d34d7cd6cdaaddcd41c1.jpeg
 

and a larger group 

IMG_4844.jpeg.8a74a77f0ac8cde73e31f97e1ce9b9b3.jpeg

 

The camera doesn’t really capture the colors properly.  They are more red than orange in person.We really need to bring some of these to the LFS.    
 

p.s.  Don’t judge the algae on the glass 🤣. There are Oto’s and a snail in there somewhere eating away!  I’m really surprised any algae can grow with all the guppy grass competing.  This tank “had” (hopefully) duckweed in it too and the algae still grows.

Wowza! Those colors are amazing! You obviously had some very vibrant genetics enter that pool! I’m sure they’d sell like hotcakes at your LFS! 

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