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Easy green question


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On 5/30/2023 at 9:29 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Yep, makes no sense. Especially with the vast majority of his audience are not using CO2. And now, the consensus is to keep Potassium higher than Nitrates with EI level dosing.

hopefully someone who knows will step in because Barr said "Even a healthy growing tank will not use more than 20-25ppm per week." so...

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For clarity, I believe this is the video being referenced:

image.png.e9e9dabd62f5b0dd46801a5d46bf3007.png

 

On 5/30/2023 at 6:24 PM, w0walana said:

Why does aquarium co-op recommend having 10-25ppm nitrates and then dosing easy green until 50ppm?

I believe the mindset behind the methodology is to ensure you don't have fertilizer as a limiting factor. 

Here's one of the relevant statements from the video:
I apologize if the punctuation is wonky, it's from the auto-generated transcript.

Quote
if let's say you have a lot of fish and they're making a ton of waste so that you have at least 20 to 50 PPM of nitrate in your water, does that mean you could skip out on the fertilizer?  Well, not quite.  Besides light and water, plants kind of need an exact mix of nutrients in order to have the building blocks to grow well.  For example, potassium is one of the macronutrients that plants need or nutrients that need a lot of. In nature it actually usually comes from rock and mineral weathering that happens over years and years and years. That's not something that happens naturally in your aquarium. That's why we created an all-in-one fertilizer, easy green, so that will have the exact ratios of all these nutrients that are perfect for your plants and you just squirt it in and takes care of everything.

 

Edited by nabokovfan87
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lol it still doesn't make sense as plants wont consume that much at all in a week with a low tech set up. especially with the plants sold by aquarium co-op, but okay! *shrugs*

Edited by w0walana
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On 5/31/2023 at 6:59 PM, w0walana said:

lol it still doesn't make sense as plants wont consume that much at all in a week with a low tech set up. especially with the plants sold by aquarium co-op, but okay! *shrugs*

I don't have enough fish to plant ratio in any of my tanks to get my nitrates that high.

Easy Green is doing a good job at keeping my plants too healthy to be appetizing to my snails, although I do need to watch plant growth and add Mg and Fe periodically.

I like the slower but consistent growth of my plants, and not having to trim as often.

Except for the day I dose Easy Green, my nitrates match my nitrites and ammonia: 0 ppm. Somehow, everything is still doing okay.

 

Full disclosure, I don't remove much from the tank, and don't do water changes since I live in the desert. I'm not non-existent tech, I do grow plants to keep my water clean (tap water top offs also jump the nitrates up once a week, to over 40 ppm if the single digit humidity happens)

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On 6/1/2023 at 9:33 AM, Pepere said:

I have to think dosing to 50 ppm nitrates would increase sales volume. Especially coupled with frequent water changes…

 

not saying that is the motivation for the recommendation.  Cory does not come across that way,  but it would be a result…

 

I keep my levels between 10-25 ppm..

I actually think they are limiting themselves with EZ green for customers benefit of ease of use. Since going down the dry fert rabbit hole I have made numerous 'formulas' including a nitrate-less Macro for use in certain situations.

Edited by JoeQ
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On 6/1/2023 at 7:33 AM, Pepere said:

I have to think dosing to 50 ppm nitrates would increase sales volume. Especially coupled with frequent water changes…

 

not saying that is the motivation for the recommendation.  Cory does not come across that way,  but it would be a result…

 

I keep my levels between 10-25 ppm..

This. Plus his formula is low in P and K and pumping in more compensates for this. 

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On 5/31/2023 at 5:59 PM, w0walana said:

lol it still doesn't make sense as plants wont consume that much at all in a week with a low tech set up. especially with the plants sold by aquarium co-op, but okay! *shrugs*

Let me give you a few real world examples of the question at hand.  There are always going to be multiple ways to view "how to" in this hobby and it's the type of thing where I am not trying to express a favorite towards one individual method.  There are many ways to handle your planted tanks and the plants inside that tank can dictate a lot about your methods. 

Example 1:  The low and slow method
Mr. Bentley has an aquarium that is used as a "for profit tank".  His focus is to be very plant heavy in his setup with slow growing, expensive plants that can be sold once they propagate out.  Anubias, ferns, buce, and other low demand plants are in this tank.  It has a lot of water column feeding plants, no soil, and there is a low bubble count of CO2 added to the tank which is designed to help the plants along, but not to push them to grow extremely quickly.  He doses in following the normal schedule of easy green with one twist.  The tank is very low stocking, which means that most or all of the nitrates tested on this tank are specifically indicating the amount of nitrates from the fertilizer only!  This allows him to directly track and control algae, lean dosing his tank, if he sees any algae issues, then it's clear that there is an imbalance of nutrients.  Testing nitrates, phosphates, and other things, Bentley can very easily adjust his method for these plants.  If there is algae growing and the nitrates are very low, he needs to dose in more fertilizer.  After a few weeks of testing and monitoring, Bentley has settled in on a schedule of dosing his tank 2x a week with a full doze of easy green.  His nitrates are always around the 10 ppm range. 


Example 2:  Community for Nature's Sake
Our next tank is called filled with a plethora of nano community fish.  The temperature is 78 degrees and the tetras shine and shimmer as they shoal around the tank.  Rachel's tank is beautiful though and she wanted to add plants to give the fish a more natural home.  She fills the back of the tank with Vallisnaria and the front of the tank is filled with some crypts.  In the midground she's planted an amazon sword and a few fancy stem plants.  Due to the large bioload on the tank her nitrates weekly when tested before maintenance are at 40 ppm.  Knowing this she doesn't plan to use a high dose of fertilizers.  She will dose easy green once a week and monitor things going forward.  After one month Rachel has noticed that her nitrates aren't going down and she is slowly increasing in nitrates.  The vallisnaria is showing a little bit of diatom algae on the leaves, but what is really concerning is the amount of deficiencies showing on the stem plants.  After some research she overhauls the tank, adds in an aquasoil substrate, root tabs across the tank and then does a series of water changes as directed on the soil instructions.  After 2 months she is seeing great growth but again there are some deficiencies showing on those pesky stem plants.  Some of the minerals needed by these plants simply isn't being provided without a liquid fertilizer.  She doses in one dose per week of the easy green and everything works out.  Her nitrates are showing 50 ppm per week now and the slow decline over a few months of growth the tank settles out at 40 ppm with the new dosing routine. 

Example 3:  The nice indoor pond setup
Richard has a fancy new UNS tank.  Floating plants, amazing rock work, and a few cooler water species to keep temperatures good for the plants.  The tank is filled with a nice carpet of fast growing plants, mosses, and small detail plants that can get out of hand quickly.  Richard enjoys the time trimming the tank and feeds any plants he can to his chickens in the backyard or into the compost pile.  He spends 1 day a week with trimming and detailing his tank, very focused on a quality aquascape and visual look.  His stocking is in the middle somewhere, but not too excessive as to encourage a huge bioload.  Richard uses a dosing machine and doses in one half dose of easy green per day! His plants are using up the nutrients very heavily and he is seeing nitrates steadily at 20 ppm per week without any real spikes or drops.  There isn't any algae issues and the plants are growing.  The quick trims and the constant monitoring allows him to keep every detail in check. 

In the above 3 scenarios there are various levels of fertilizers, plants, and a few key methods. 
1.  Monitor your nitrates to determine what is coming from bioload in the tank and what is coming from fertilizers.
2.  Make sure your plants have what they specifically need! Some plants want liquid ferts and low light, lean dosing, while other plants want a ton of light, CO2, and will use up a lot of ferts day to day.
3.  Your maintenance and your method plays a role! If you are doing constant work with the plants, they will grow as a result in a specific way.  Some trimmings will encourage plants to split. Propagating the plants out pushing them to grow in that way.  If you have a more relaxed approach, trimming every few months, the plants will react accordingly.  Once you have growth, it's entirely up to how you want to handle it and the work you want to put in, which does play a role in how much ferts could impact your tank. 

If you want to have a more relaxed approach, lean dosing is your friend.
If you want high tech, daily dosing is your friend.

There are so many ways to run a planted tank that not one formula encapsulated the entire spectrum.  Overall the advice is to have "enough" to work for
"most situations".

Edited by nabokovfan87
Spelling error.
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With the all in one fertilizer(s), IMO my main concern would be keeping a steady 1:10 ratio of Nitrate : Phosphate which the more I read is a huge deterrent when it comes to fighting algae growth. 

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On 6/2/2023 at 10:17 AM, JoeQ said:

With the all in one fertilizer(s), IMO my main concern would be keeping a steady 1:10 ratio of Nitrate : Phosphate which the more I read is a huge deterrent when it comes to fighting algae growth. 

My tap has more than 10ppm of phosphate in the water. my established tanks don't really battle any severe algae. do you think there's a certain ratio i should follow for dosing ferts?

On 6/2/2023 at 11:39 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

2 years?

yeah i think he's had the same formula for a majority of his career but don't quote me on that

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On 6/2/2023 at 11:42 AM, w0walana said:

My tap has more than 10ppm of phosphate in the water. my established tanks don't really battle any severe algae. do you think there's a certain ratio i should follow for dosing ferts?

With the all in one's its kind of hard to follow ratios since whenever you fertalize you are changing each nutrient. This is where dry ferts really shine, you can tailor them to your tap water and tank conditions. The downside is that they take a bit of time to get over the 'learning curve' which can be intimidating. 

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On 6/2/2023 at 11:52 AM, JoeQ said:

With the all in one's its kind of hard to follow ratios since whenever you fertalize you are changing each nutrient. This is where dry ferts really shine, you can tailor them to your tap water and tank conditions. The downside is that they take a bit of time to get over the 'learning curve' which can be intimidating. 

Instead of dry ferts, i have the flourish line; nitrogen, potassium and comprehensive 

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On 6/2/2023 at 6:42 PM, w0walana said:

Instead of dry ferts, i have the flourish line; nitrogen, potassium and comprehensive 

Im not really versed on the flourish line but the first ratio I really started paying attention to was the calcium/magnesium ratio which should be 3:1. Previously I always saw this as water hardness when infact they are considered secondary plant nutrients (along with sulfer) . Im just now reading that it is also important to have your nitrogen:phosphate ratio in a certain range as well. I have not read anything on a potassium ratio, but maybe @Mmiller2001 has. Of course this is all information from what ive read, and from my collection of Google IQ factoids.

Legal Disclaimer: I am not a licensed botanist, nor do I understand chemistry. I encourage the reader to do his or her own research!

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On 6/2/2023 at 10:40 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Just read Tom Barr Estimative Index and his followup for non co2 injected tanks.

so, even if i have 10ppm phosphate naturally, i don’t need to have higher levels of other nutrients? like 10-20ppm N, 10ppm P, and 10-20ppm K?

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