Fish staying in one spot,help!

[ChillFish]

Hey, I have long fin white cloud minnows. Last afternoon  one didn’t want to eat but stayed in a corner. I panicked, it was in the same spot my hill stream loach choose as he died. (Water got warmer suddenly, I have a room temp tank) I didn’t know what was wrong but I ran out of the room to get something and when I got back a moment later he was swimming along like nothing had happened.

Last night I found him there again. Not moving, “resting” upright on the substrate in the corner of tank underneath my filter. After googling I did a 50% water change and soon after that he started swimming with the rest of his minnows.

This morning he has gone back to the corner. However I just caught him swimming around again?? I am so confused and not sure why he is acting this way. He is swimming a little slow and disinterested… his fins are droopy, like he’s tired.

Tank Info: started in Dec, 16 Gal, room temp, scheduled light, planted, shrimp, snails, minnows

Water: temp 64-68, PH always steady but low ~6.5, KH ~40, nitrate and nitrite at 0. No ammonia.

Recent change: hill-stream loach died due to sudden warmer water, air stone-like attachment added- attempt to save loach (I took off this morning maybe affecting minnows negatively?)

Possible problem?:  5 1/2 month submerged spider wood has orange spots slowly covering the wood, mostly on topside of wood (none growing underneath), wood breaking down? This has been going on for a couple weeks now. (See pic)

That’s all I have, if anyone knows what’s going on please let me know!

ChillFish

pic from yesterday AMtest from this AM

Orange spots

sorry this last one is upside down - back side view of spider wood

Edited May 22, 2023 by ChillFish
Some clarification:)

[ChillFish]

Update: swimming slow, not wanting food, hanging back from the other fish (no sign of bullying)

stops and “rests” in his corner or on the spider wood. Not moving fins, still

[Colu]

I would add a small amount of aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 10 gallons that will aid Gill function and aid Gill function and add essential electrolytes I would also add an extra air stone  have you noticed any rapid breathing hanging near the surface flashing spitting food out weight loss @ChillFish

[ChillFish]

On 5/22/2023 at 10:59 AM, Colu said:

I would add a small amount of aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 10 gallons that will aid Gill function and aid Gill function and add essential electrolytes I would also add an extra air stone  have you noticed any rapid breathing hanging near the surface flashing spitting food out weight loss @ChillFish

Don’t have that salt, just put air stone in

no rapid breathing, surface hang, flashing, or gasping… he is rarely moving his mouth 

he did spit out this morning’s food, he only tried eating one piece. maybe a little skinny?  Color is dull

could he be bored of the food?

food: easy fry food from aquarium co-op

[Colu]

If he's a bit skinny it might be worthwhile treating with paracleanse do two full courses of treatment 2weeks apart @ChillFish

[ChillFish]

On 5/22/2023 at 1:42 PM, Colu said:

If he's a bit skinny it might be worthwhile treating with paracleanse do two full courses of treatment 2weeks apart @ChillFish

Okay, I will look into it. Thank you for the advice!!

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/22/2023 at 10:29 AM, ChillFish said:

I'm wondering if the fish might be hiding because it's weakened due to an illness and is trying to avoid higher flow.   I've seen similar behavior when a subdominant male is trying to avoid aggression.  If it gets bad, you might want to put him into a breeder box so he doesn't have to struggle as much with the current or depth of the tank.

I don't know what is going on with the wood.  Did you boil it before you added it to the tank?  It looks like some sort of fungus, but it's difficult to tell.  Maybe a photo out of the water would help.  Is it easy to remove the orange stuff with a pair of tweezers or pinsettes?

Here is a video to help with the paracleanse treatments

 

[ChillFish]

On 5/22/2023 at 1:42 PM, Colu said:

If he's a bit skinny it might be worthwhile treating with paracleanse do two full courses of treatment 2weeks apart @ChillFish

Update! Just completed the first round of papacleanse. The fish almost immediately stopped the previous behavior. (Yea!) 

I didn’t see any white poop though. I’m wondering if I should do the second phase? I do know that…
One or two of the minnows will every now and then stay in one spot like they’re sleeping. But I know they aren’t? It’s like they are “glitching”. Just kinda moving when necessary to stay in one spot. Once I saw them breathing heavily but never again. No signs of outside stress, cut fins, bullying. No interest in food. 

Should I do the second phase or is this not a parasite issue?
@Colu

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/1/2023 at 1:39 PM, ChillFish said:

I didn’t see any white poop though. I’m wondering if I should do the second phase? I do know that…

I actually had this same issue! It was so weird.  My black corydoras were supposed to be from a good source, but when they got to me they were extremely lethargic.  I added more to the group and that didn't really seem to help.  I would feed and they never seemed interested, didn't swim a lot either.  Very inactive fish, unfortunately.

I highly recommend following up with multiple rounds of treatment.  My usual method is to do 3-4 rounds.  Even if you don't see worms, there can still be things going on that need that treatment to be removed.  Good siphons after each med treatment, and then trying to encourage food to push out parasites.  Don't overfeed, but just meaning to not hold back food as it were.  I ended up doing advice based on @Odd Duck and Colu's advice trying to get them back to normal.  It took me almost a year and a half to get the courage to do the full rounds of treatment properly and to really deworm the fish.

Odd Ducks method:
Day 1: Expel-P (one day treatment, light sensitive so you need to blackout the tank)
Day 2-6: Siphon, clean the tank, waterchange, and then Paracleanse treatment

Repeat that based on the severity for 4-6 rounds of treatment.

 

Edited June 1, 2023 by nabokovfan87

[Colu]

On 6/1/2023 at 9:39 PM, ChillFish said:

Update! Just completed the first round of papacleanse. The fish almost immediately stopped the previous behavior. (Yea!) 

I didn’t see any white poop though. I’m wondering if I should do the second phase? I do know that…
One or two of the minnows will every now and then stay in one spot like they’re sleeping. But I know they aren’t? It’s like they are “glitching”. Just kinda moving when necessary to stay in one spot. Once I saw them breathing heavily but never again. No signs of outside stress, cut fins, bullying. No interest in food. 

Should I do the second phase or is this not a parasite issue?
@Colu

I can't say for sure it's a parasitic infections without looking a fecal samples under a microscope I would follow up in two weeks with a second course of paracleanse just to be on the safe

[ChillFish]

On 5/31/2023 at 9:39 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I don't know what is going on with the wood.  Did you boil it before you added it to the tank?  It looks like some sort of fungus, but it's difficult to tell.  Maybe a photo out of the water would help.  Is it easy to remove the orange stuff with a pair of tweezers or pinsettes?

Hello! The minnow has improved!

As for the orange stuff… I got the wood from my old coworker, she’s the one who got me into the hobby. She said she had already boiled it and that it was ready to go.

I have had several stages of the wood breaking down already and I am assuming that this is another stage but I can’t find anything on it. I can’t remove it without disturbing the tank, but I’m willing if it proves to be a hazard.

The spots are bright orange and hard in texture. The fall off with some pressure. I haven’t tried removed it off the wood cause I’m worried it will spread onto other places.  Not to mention I would again have to take out the wood to get it all off.
I’m not sure if it is bothering anything or just a part of the ecosystem… but really I don’t know what it is.

Edited June 1, 2023 by ChillFish

[ChillFish]

On 6/1/2023 at 1:51 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I actually had this same issue! It was so weird.  My black corydoras were supposed to be from a good source, but when they got to me they were extremely lethargic.  I added more to the group and that didn't really seem to help.  I would feed and they never seemed interested, didn't swim a lot either.  Very inactive fish, unfortunately.

I highly recommend following up with multiple rounds of treatment.  My usual method is to do 3-4 rounds.  Even if you don't see worms, there can still be things going on that need that treatment to be removed.  Good siphons after each med treatment, and then trying to encourage food to push out parasites.  Don't overfeed, but just meaning to not hold back food as it were.  I ended up doing advice based on @Odd Duck and Colu's advice trying to get them back to normal.  It took me almost a year and a half to get the courage to do the full rounds of treatment properly and to really deworm the fish.

Odd Ducks method:
Day 1: Expel-P (one day treatment, light sensitive so you need to blackout the tank)
Day 2-6: Siphon, clean the tank, waterchange, and then Paracleanse treatment

Repeat that based on the severity for 4-6 rounds of treatment.

 

Okay! I don’t have the expel-p… I do know I haven’t been on top of the sun hitting the tank. So I’ll try to limit that more so. I’ll get the second round of paracleanse going cause that’s all I have… and I keep their regular food schedule. I haven’t stopped feeding them, all of them have been eating… except recently the “glitching” fish. I’ll try though to get her to eat. Thx!

[Odd Duck]

Expel-P is far more likely to be helpful, particularly for smaller fish.  Paracleanse hits tapeworm type parasites and some one-celled intestinal parasites/flagellates, but doesn’t hit nematode/roundworm type which are most common among smaller fishes.  My full treatment plan fits Expel-P and Paracleanse or PraziPro together to compact the treatments over the shortest time period.  More explanation of why treatment timing is spaced the way it is at the beginning with a condensed, hopefully easy to follow, version at the end.  Dose each treatment based on the specific product you are using.

Deworming

Siphon out debris from the bottom before and after dosing to remove any expelled worms, eggs, debris, etc.  Levamisole is inactivated by organic debris and by light, so dose after lights out and black out the tank for 24 hours, remove organics via water changes and cleaning the bottom of debris as much as possible.

It’s likely that levamisole does what it can do within the first hour, but best to follow directions precisely.  If you have a bare bottom hospital tank available, it might be best and easiest to transfer the fish to that tank for the duration of treatment - up to 5 weeks total treatment time if doing 3 doses of praziquantal.

Levamisole treatment should be weekly for 4 treatments.  Praziquantal treatment should be every other week (at least) for 2-3 treatments and it is left in for a week at a time.  It can be dosed the day after levamisole treatment.  Remove any carbon or Purigen from filters before dosing.

Have enough dechlorinated water to do a 50% water change immediately if any adverse symptoms are seen in the fish.

A typical treatment regimen: 

1. 50% water change with careful siphoning of debris from the bottom of the tank.

2. Dose with levamisole and black out the tank for 24 hours.  Then 50% water change siphoning the entire bottom of the tank.

3. Dose with praziquantal directly after the second 50% WC.

4. One week later, 50% water change siphoning the bottom thoroughly.  Dose with levamisole following directions in step 1-2.

5. One week later (start of week 3 of treatment), repeat all steps 1-4 over another 2 weeks time.

6. Repeat all steps 1-5, then do last WC one week later after third dose of praziquantal.

Not all snails will tolerate treatments, so best to remove any snails in the tank.

 

Condensed, weekly schedule:

Week 1: siphon debris and do 50% water change, levamisole x 24 hrs, siphon.  Treat with praziquantal and leave in until next week.

Week 2: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon.

Week 3: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon, then prazi.

Week 4: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon.

Week 5: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon, then prazi.

Week 6: siphon.

[ChillFish]

Thank you for the advice!

Its all a little overwhelming. I’m going to order the medication. I’m also going to get a hospital tank. (I don’t have one)

when I get the procedure going, I’ll try my best to clean the main tank as best as I can. Do you recommend keeping the snails and shrimp in the main tank to help with the clean up or remove them into a 3rd tank? 

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/1/2023 at 1:56 PM, ChillFish said:

I have had several stages of the wood breaking down already and I am assuming that this is another stage but I can’t find anything on it. I can’t remove it without disturbing the tank, but I’m willing if it proves to be a hazard.

The spots are bright orange and hard in texture. The fall off with some pressure. I haven’t tried removed it off the wood cause I’m worried it will spread onto other places.  Not to mention I would again have to take out the wood to get it all off.

I don't think it's an issue, but it doesn't do anything beneficial to the tank. You might be able to get most of it when Doing cleaning and scraping the wood with the end of the siphon. I would tend to just take it out. Go to the front yard, get the fish only scrubber sponge and get what I could off.

If it keeps showing up, then I wouldn't use the wood without bleaching or reboiling it. I don't think anything would eat whatever that is.

On 6/1/2023 at 2:07 PM, ChillFish said:

Okay! I don’t have the expel-p… I do know I haven’t been on top of the sun hitting the tank. So I’ll try to limit that more so. I’ll get the second round of paracleanse going cause that’s all I have… and I keep their regular food schedule. I haven’t stopped feeding them, all of them have been eating… except recently the “glitching” fish. I’ll try though to get her to eat. Thx!

All good. You can do them separately if need be.  I had one issue where I didn't have enough on hand, counted the wrong amount of packets to treat the tank and had to do them one then the other. Just longer time to feel like the fish is cured, but it's very promising that you're seeing better behavior. I'm glad to hear it.

On 6/1/2023 at 6:04 PM, ChillFish said:

I’ll try my best to clean the main tank as best as I can. Do you recommend keeping the snails and shrimp in the main tank to help with the clean up or remove them into a 3rd tank? 

Amano shrimp are Amazing and wonderful if you want to try an easier to keep shrimp. 🙂

[ChillFish]

On 6/1/2023 at 6:23 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I had one issue where I didn't have enough on hand, counted the wrong amount of packets to treat the tank and had to do them one then the other.

Okay… so I was going to just start over the treatment with @Odd Duck’s advice in a hospital tank… but should i take in account that I’ve already done paracleanse and skip that part? Or just start from scratch?

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/1/2023 at 6:53 PM, ChillFish said:

Okay… so I was going to just start over the treatment with @Odd Duck’s advice in a hospital tank… but should i take in account that I’ve already done paracleanse and skip that part? Or just start from scratch?

Finish out paracleanse and then do your expel-P treatments after that. It gives you time to get the meds and such. You'll likely be doing anywhere from 3-6 treatments of paracleanse. Odd Duck would be better to explain how you decide how many treatments.

[Odd Duck]

On 6/1/2023 at 8:04 PM, ChillFish said:

Thank you for the advice!

Its all a little overwhelming. I’m going to order the medication. I’m also going to get a hospital tank. (I don’t have one)

when I get the procedure going, I’ll try my best to clean the main tank as best as I can. Do you recommend keeping the snails and shrimp in the main tank to help with the clean up or remove them into a 3rd tank? 

If you fish to the hospital tank, then you can leave all snails and shrimp in the main tank.

Shouldn’t typically need more than 3 treatments of Paracleanse.  Sometimes need 4-6 of Expel-P if Camallanus worms are seen.  Start with Expel-P as soon as you can, but timing is everything with parasites.  You need to hit the parasites in a weak point in their life cycle so do every other week with Paracleanse and weekly with the Expel-P once you get it.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 6/1/2023 at 9:23 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I wouldn't use the wood without bleaching or reboiling

👆 yep

[ChillFish]

On 6/1/2023 at 9:23 PM, Odd Duck said:

Shouldn’t typically need more than 3 treatments of Paracleanse.  Sometimes need 4-6 of Expel-P if Camallanus worms are seen.  Start with Expel-P as soon as you can, but timing is everything with parasites.  You need to hit the parasites in a weak point in their life cycle so do every other week with Paracleanse and weekly with the Expel-P once you get it.

Okay, understood, I will try my best. Thank you!!

[ChillFish]

UPDATE: "glitching" fish found dead at bottom of tank curled up, belly up 😞  she would not eat and looked a bit swollen, her tail would float upwards when she was hovering in one place

a second fish is doing the same "glitching" and not eating, 

getting a hospital tank today, will take 25% of main tank water to help speed cycle and continue the Paracleanse schedule in the hospital tank with all of the fish

all other fish are still eating and swimming as normal...

[Torrey]

On 5/31/2023 at 10:39 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I've seen similar behavior when a subdominant male is trying to avoid aggression.  If it gets bad, you might want to put him into a breeder box so he doesn't have to struggle as much with the current or depth of the tank.

This is where I see this behavior with mine.

I put the sub-dom male in the breeder box until the babies born in Q/T are a little bigger and can help spread the aggression out. Everyone is chill again.

I had tried breaking up line of site, first, but the dominant male was locating the sub-dom no matter where he hid... So, separation time boys!!!

I automatically treat with PraziPro in my Q/T, and the bottom of Q/T is glass (my only glass bottom tanks) with a small area of lava rock for easy vacuum of "substrate" each morning during the PraziPro treatment.

So each batch of fry are a solid 2 weeks apart, and last batch 3 weeks apart when I was concerned about a potential illness.

Nope, just tired of being bullied.

Next week, adult trio will go into a patio pond, and lone male will hang out with the fry. WCMM show zero infanticidal behavior.

@ChillFish I am sorry you didn't have as good of an outcome. Odd Duck posted these instructions for parasites (will kill snails) that have been a real game changer:

Deworming

 

Siphon out debris from the bottom before and after dosing to remove any expelled worms, eggs, debris, etc. Levamisole is inactivated by organic debris and by light, so dose after lights out and black out the tank for 24 hours, remove organics via water changes and cleaning the bottom of debris as much as possible.

 

It’s likely that levamisole does what it can do within the first hour, but best to follow directions precisely. If you have a bare bottom hospital tank available, it might be best and easiest to transfer the fish to that tank for the duration of treatment - up to 5 weeks total treatment time if doing 3 doses of praziquantal.

 

Levamisole treatment should be weekly for 4 treatments. Praziquantal treatment should be every other week (at least) for 2-3 treatments and it is left in for a week at a time. It can be dosed the day after levamisole treatment. Remove any carbon or Purigen from filters before dosing.

 

Have enough dechlorinated water to do a 50% water change immediately if any adverse symptoms are seen in the fish.

 

A typical treatment regimen: 

 

1. 50% water change with careful siphoning of debris from the bottom of the tank.

 

2. Dose with levamisole and black out the tank for 24 hours. Then 50% water change siphoning the entire bottom of the tank.

 

3. Dose with praziquantal directly after the second 50% WC.

 

4. One week later, 50% water change siphoning the bottom thoroughly. Dose with levamisole following directions in step 1-2.

 

5. One week later (start of week 3 of treatment), repeat all steps 1-4 over another 2 weeks time.

 

6. Repeat all steps 1-5, then do last WC one week later after third dose of praziquantal.

 

Not all snails will tolerate treatments, so best to remove any snails in the tank.

 

 

Condensed, weekly schedule:

 

Week 1: siphon debris and do 50% water change, levamisole x 24 hrs, siphon. Treat with praziquantal and leave in until next week.

 

Week 2: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon.

 

Week 3: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon, then prazi.

 

Week 4: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon.

 

Week 5: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon, then prazi.

 

Week 6: siphon.

*************

It's very, very important to do the entire course, as directed, so you don't end up with treatment resistant organisms in your tank.

Bare bottom is easiest to suction out, and I keep floating plants with thick roots (dwarf water hyacinth and dwarf water lettuce) in my Q/T during the PraziPro (keeps ammonia and nitrite levels non-existent while keeping the correct concentration of the medication), and take them out for the 24 hours of levamisole.

 

Hope that helps!

[ChillFish]

Todays update:

All fish acting well this morning, moved them all into the new hospital tank(HT). Tried to get HT water parameters close as possible to main tank’s. Fed and gave next dose of paracleanse. 

here is what I’ve scheduled/done:

week 1: Paracleanse 

Notes: FishA’s corner behavior stopped. Later half of week, FishB began “glitching”

week 2: Paracleanse (in middle of)

Notes: FishB found dead, FishC “glitching” first stages (not eating and every now and then “glitching”)

mid wk: moved fish into bare bottom tank

 

week3: Expel-P (on its way)

Week 4: Expel-p  and Paracleanse

Week 5: Expel-p

Week 6:

Week 7: move fish back into main tank?

 

—Main tank cleaning schedule—

mid Week 2: 25% water change

beginning Week 3: deep clean tank- take care of wood clean & reboil, siphon all substrate, clean filter

Week 4: clean filter* vac substrate

Week 5:* feed shrimp?

Week 6:*

Week 7: back to normal?

[ChillFish]

Hello everyone! I’m excited to announce my minnows are back in their tank! They are all very happy to be back home. They are finding their favorite plants and  playing in the flow. I think the shrimp are annoyed they’re back. XD

Ever since I moved them into the hospital tank all weird swimming and behavior stopped. Still, I followed the treatments and did all those water changes my goodness.

I cleaned the main tank’s wood and got the whole tank the cleanest it’s been in a long time.

I hope all will be well and I will not need my hospital tank for a LONG time haha

Thank you all for your assistance!! I am very grateful ❤️

ChillFish