Just added new fish, now concerned

[schmofam]

We just purchased six fish for our 10-gallon tank- three platys, and three guppies. There was already one guppy, one platy, and three mystery snails in the tank.

Two questions:
1. We just saw a video after the fact about adding too many fish at one time and it become a "ticking time bomb of dying fish" due to the sudden bio-load made by the addition. Is this true? Can I prevent it? The tank has been up and running for about 7 months.
2. We have noticed that there has been some chasing, primarily to one fish made by a few new guppies and the existing platy. All of the fish in the tank are male. Why may this be happening and how can we address it?

Here is the video we saw:

Thanks

Edited May 22, 2023 by schmofam

[Colu]

What I would is do is reduced feeding to only once a day for the frist week  test daily during the Frist two weeks if you notice any ammonia or nitrite do a 50% water change and add a double dose of prime or Fritz complete to help detoxify any ammonia and nitrite 

Edited June 4, 2023 by Colu

[lefty o]

agree with the above, and maybe add in a 2-3gal water change in a few days.

[jwcarlson]

Feed them less and change water as suggested above.  Doing 50% water changes in a 10 gallon tank doesn't take but a couple of minutes.

That said, I have never had any major issues with this kind of thing while paying attention.  Just monitor the parameters every day or every other until you're comfortable things are OK.  That's the main reason I like the strips.  In the past I've done twice a day 50% changes in "quarantine" and then once filter catches up down to daily, then every other, etc. 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

I think you’lL be fine if you follow the above advice. 
The chasing is normal in livebearers. Males have a 1 track mind. Make sure there are places to hide and sight breaks to help the females. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/21/2023 at 6:37 PM, schmofam said:

Two questions:
1. We just saw a video after the fact about adding too many fish at one time and it become a "ticking time bomb of dying fish" due to the sudden bio-load made by the addition. Is this true? Can I prevent it? The tank has been up and running for about 7 months.
2. We have noticed that there has been some chasing, primarily to one fish made by a few new guppies and the existing platy. All of the fish in the tank are male. Why may this be happening and how can we address it?

The first thing you would want to do is test and to monitor what is really going on in the tank.
 

My advice would be daily testing and report back your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, PH, and KH.  All of those parameters can swing heavily based on bioload and go into how the tank itself will cycle.  During any of the days of daily testing, if you see any ammonia or nitrite you'd want to do a 30-50% water change on the tank.  Repeat this until the tank is ultimately cycled. 

Aquarium coop also has a water change guide that can be helpful, I'll link that below.
https://www.aquariumcoop.com/pages/water-changes

......now, back to your questions at hand.

1.  A sudden increase in bioload can be managed using the above advice and the above steps mentioned by everyone.  If you run into issues it could be an indication of filtration being incorrectly setup.  The real key there is that filtration matters and how it's setup matters.  If you would like to review it, please feel free to post details for your tank and how it's setup.  Having the tank setup for a long time is promising.

2. In some cases you can remove the attacking fish for a few days and let them "cool off".  I have had this work to success in my case.  Another method is to reset the boundaries in the tank.  To do this you'd want to move around the hardscape and try to create new places for the fish to call their own.  Adding things, removing things, trimming plants, all of those can be done to reset the boundaries.

[Scapexghost]

I thought this post was about the metallica album 😔

Its not about a big increase of fish its about a big increase of food, add a bunch of fish but slowly increase food and youll be golden

[Ninjoma]

In addition to what others have mentioned, you could also try adding some additional bacteria like fritz zyme 7 or seachem stability. 

[sumplkrum]

If you have an extra sponge filter setup somewhere else, you can move it to this tank.

All of my tanks have excess plants. If I have a new tank setup or one that's a bit overstocked, I just throw a clump of plants in. 

Between the sponge filter and the plants, a new tank is instantly cycled and can handle a decent amount of fish.

If you are applying meds for quarantine, just watch the ammonia since meds will kill a bunch of your bacteria.

Plants also provide hiding places for timid individuals.

[schmofam]

Thanks all. I will follow the advice ☝️ and report the levels as things move along.

And I did add the Quaritine Medicine Trio that the Aquarium co-op suggested.

As for the tank, it's planted, though very recently. I have the hang-on back Tetra Whisper filter for 10 gallons. I have a sponge installed for the intake. I recently bought the Aquarium co-op Nano Tank hang-on back filter that I will be used in conjunction with the Tetra. My current lid won't support both right now so I'm making a new one.

Regarding the chasing, I do have some wood and a little temple to hide in. What I have noticed is that most of the chasing is between the new fish that have been added. My existing guppy isn't chased and isn't chasing. The existing platy has been chasing the other platys around a bit, and that would be expected. It's difficult to move items around the tank because it's aquascaped. In anyone's experience, do things calm down after some time? I don't like to see some fish being picked on.

Edited May 22, 2023 by schmofam

[Lennie]

On 5/22/2023 at 8:03 PM, schmofam said:

Thanks all. I will follow the advice ☝️ and report the levels as things move along.

And I did add the Quaritine Medicine Trio that the Aquarium co-op suggested.

As for the tank, it's planted, though very recently. I have the hang-on back Tetra Whisper filter for 10 gallons. I have a sponge installed for the intake. I recently bought the Aquarium co-op Nano Tank hang-on back filter that I will be used in conjunction with the Tetra. My current lid won't support both right now so I'm making a new one.

Regarding the chasing, I do have some wood and a little temple to hide in. What I have noticed is that most of the chasing is between the new fish that have been added. My existing guppy isn't chased and isn't chasing. The existing platy has been chasing the other platys around a bit, and that would be expected. It's difficult to move items around the tank because it's aquascaped. In anyone's experience, do things calm down after some time? I don't like to see some fish being picked on.

Such cute snails! ♥

Do they have names? 🙂

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea look, our Summer and Rick

[Galabar]

Adding 6 fish might be fine.  I think the advice of feeding very lightly for a while is a good one.  Also, water changes.

Keep a sharp eye out for ammonia.  If you have the API ammonia test, you can run one test with tap (or distilled) water and one with the tank water.  Put the test tubes next to each other and make sure they look exactly the same.

Also a combination of 8 guppies and platies with three mystery snails is probably the maximum you want to keep in a 10 gallon.

 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Galabar

[schmofam]

On 5/22/2023 at 12:32 PM, Galabar said:

Put the test tubes next to each other and make sure they look exactly the same.

I did this before adding the fish. Our water contains more ammonia than my aquarium water. I make sure to use Prime when doing water changes to make sure it's at 0.

 

On 5/22/2023 at 12:32 PM, Galabar said:

Also a combination of 8 guppies and platies with three mystery snails is probably the maximum you want to keep in a 10 gallon.

Yeah, I was a little hesitant about this number so I made sure we had all male fish to avoid babies. I have 8 total fish now - 4 guppies, and 4 platies. I think that's what you are saying but wanted to clarify.

On 5/22/2023 at 11:51 AM, Lennie said:

Do they have names? 🙂

One is Bronco and I can't remember the other two. My daughter named them. 🙂

Edited May 22, 2023 by schmofam

[Galabar]

On 5/22/2023 at 12:47 PM, schmofam said:

I did this before adding the fish. Our water contains more ammonia than my aquarium water. I make sure to use Prime when doing water changes to make sure it's at 0.

I meant for testing the aquarium water.  The tests can show a very subtle change in the presence of ammonia.  The tap/distilled tube is used as a reference for what 0 should look like...

[RennjiDK]

I wouldn't worry about it in the slightest. Nitrifying bacteria colonies can double in size in a matter of hours. Your stocking is negligible in terms of bioload. As long as the tank was already cycled before you made the additions, it's already actively adjusting and processing the new load.

[RennjiDK]

On 5/22/2023 at 1:03 PM, schmofam said:

I have the hang-on back Tetra Whisper filter for 10 gallons. I have a sponge installed for the intake. I recently bought the Aquarium co-op Nano Tank hang-on back filter that I will be used in conjunction with the Tetra

Adding a second filter wont actually increase your filtration capacity unless it was severely limited in the first place, which in your case is extremely unlikely. I would just transfer media from the old one to the new one if you want to use it. 

[Lennie]

On 5/23/2023 at 12:05 AM, RennjiDK said:

Adding a second filter wont actually increase your filtration capacity unless it was severely limited in the first place, which in your case is extremely unlikely. I would just transfer media from the old one to the new one if you want to use it. 

That's actually not totally true, unless you consider filtration only biological. More filters will help with chemical and mechanical filtration, additional filter for emergency usage and quarantine setups so potentially extra biological filter for anytime. Also attaching stuff to sponge filters is much harder and unpleasing looking than just dropping a pack of active carbon or somehing in a hob basket when needed, in my opinion. 

Also better circulation, less dead spots, more oxygen content are general surplus of extra filteration.

Edited May 22, 2023 by Lennie

[RennjiDK]

On 5/22/2023 at 5:10 PM, Lennie said:

That's actually not totally true, unless you consider filtration only biological. More filters will help with chemical and mechanical filtration, additional filter for emergency usage and quarantine setups so potentially extra biological filter for anytime. Also attaching stuff to sponge filters is much harder and unpleasing looking than just dropping a pack of active carbon or somehing in a hob basket when needed, in my opinion. 

Also better circulation, less dead spots, more oxygen content are general surplus of extra filteration.

Which is why I added the qualifier, "which in your case is extremely unlikely", as my response was directed at his specific filter and tank. Having a whisper filter running in addition to a decent hob is going to provide next to nothing other than additional biological filtration, as that's all those filters are good for. There's a reason why they are sold for $6 at Walmart.

[schmofam]

*Update* - All levels have been just fine. No issues. Testing every or every other day and have not had any spikes or high levels. 🙂

There is still a ton of chasing around in the tank. It's not a very peaceful place. This wasn't the case when I had two females per male. Having all males seemed to have created a kind of cage-match scenario. 🥊 

Any ideas? Should I take back some of the males and get some females instead? I know they will breed, so I must be prepared to give them away to friends or sell them back to the fish store. However, I would prefer that to what looks like constant stress in the tank.

[nabokovfan87]

The usual method with aggression is to re-scape the tank and move things around to set new territory.  If you're having say 2-3 guppy males pester one another, you'd want to add more males to diffuse the aggression, similar to barbs.  If you have one fish that is being particularly pesty, try putting them into a breeder box for a few day and then releasing them back into the tank with the others.  It worked for me to quell a beat up swordtail male.  The vise versa can also work.  If you have one male that is getting picked on, pull him, let him recover for a week or so, then release him back and monitor.

[Odd Duck]

Came here to say essentially what @nabokovfan87 said.  You likely need more males to disperse the aggression among all the group.  Probably need at least 6-7 (most fish can’t seem to keep track past 3-4 others) and more would be better.  Sometimes crowding them is the solution, so they don’t get all focused on one fish.

[Torrey]

On 5/22/2023 at 11:03 AM, schmofam said:

difficult to move items around the tank because it's aquascaped. In anyone's experience, do things calm down after some time? I d

Add floating plants with long roots, even if only temporarily. New fish were added, and now there's chasing. Options to stop the chasing are catch and remove fish (a pain in a scaped tanks) or rearrange things, or add more plants to address increased bio load  *and* break up line of site.

Choose the option that works best for you.

I'm all about options, and most of my tanks are also scaped (see response to catching fish) so here are visuals to help make an informed choice:

1. Dwarf water lettuce roots

2. Floating plants like hornwort or milfoil

3. Dwarf hyacinth 

Each has pros and cons. Dwarf water lettuce is the most forgiving of softer water, hyacinth and hornwort will make a mess if they are denied their calcium.

European milfoil is invasive in the US, make sure it stays out of the drain and waterways. Hornwort actually grows well with the quarantine meds and using aquarium salt as medication. If I do another brackish tank, I'm going to test hornwort in it.

Welcome to Nermtopia!!!!

[schmofam]

@Odd Duck@nabokovfan87,  I have a 10-gallon tank, and now with 8 fish total, it feels like I shouldn't have too many more. I can return some of the fish I just bought and get the ratio of 1 male to 3 females or so for the guppies and platys if that would help things out. That way I could stick to around 8-10 fish instead of adding a lot more males. What do you think?

@Torrey - Good idea on the plants. I currently had some but could add others. 

And per the picture, lots of glass surfing going on, especially from the original all-orange platy that was alone in the tank and didn't previously exhibit such behavior.

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/3/2023 at 12:46 PM, schmofam said:

What do you think?

For any livebearers it's a matter of time before you have a lot more fish. The only way to stop that is to have only males or only females.

[schmofam]

On 6/3/2023 at 3:56 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

The only way to stop that is to have only males or only females.

I can sell any babies to the fish store. I'm willing to do whatever is best to make a peaceful tank. If All males, what do you think then would be the max amount of fish for this tank?