outside tubs Rainbow shiners & white cloud minnows

[Flying fox 6523]

I need your help on this being I've never tried this with 
these breeds of fish, I have 2-110 gal rubber stock tanks 
if I wanted to start some in each 1 what's the requirements?

Do they have to have a good flow/ circulation filtration setup?
what plant's would I need for cover & shelter? I have all shade 
so that's covered LITTERLY do they do better outside in a tub?

I don't mind hard work or long comments for your thoughts 
I appreciate all the help I can get, & I love videos to watch so 
maybe we can setup a nice tub for these lucky charms. 

[Fish Folk]

I’m sure @WhitecloudDynasty can share loads of good experiences. Overheating is a concern. Added air can be good. A certain amount of nitrifying bacteria needs to build up on the tubs. Some people keep leaves in tubs intentionally. Other allow leaves incidentally. I am seeing a lot more healthy, developed bug larvae in tubs with leaves.

They’re drift-feeders, so _some_ regular feeding is good. I actually really like ACO fry starter food.

[Flying fox 6523]

On 5/6/2023 at 5:36 PM, Fish Folk said:

I’m sure @WhitecloudDynasty can share loads of good experiences. Overheating is a concern. Added air can be good. A certain amount of nitrifying bacteria needs to build up on the tubs. Some people keep leaves in tubs intentionally. Other allow leaves incidentally. I am seeing a lot more healthy, developed bug larvae in tubs with leaves.

They’re drift-feeders, so _some_ regular feeding is good. I actually really like ACO fry starter food.

How many would be a good start in a tub that size ?
I have plenty of air pumps to get air to the tank & I
have plenty of leaves (oak & tulip maple) & how 
cold can they be in without killing them? I have a 
good heater I can use.

[Fish Folk]

They can be cool. You could probably put them outside once nighttime temperatures stay above 50°-F consistently. No heater needed.

In my view, you could add 100 juveniles to a 110 gal. Stock tank.

[Flying fox 6523]

On 5/6/2023 at 6:33 PM, Fish Folk said:

They can be cool. You could probably put them outside once nighttime temperatures stay above 50°-F consistently. No heater needed.

In my view, you could add 100 juveniles to a 110 gal. Stock tank.

That's what I was thinking & if I can keep it above 50
they should do good, Cory I think has a video about it 
but I think it is on rice fish not any of the shiners or minnows.

[WhitecloudDynasty]

I would keep them under the shade if you aren't going to run any pump.

White cloud is easy..just fill it up and add the fish in 2 week later, plants is 100% up to you.3-5 hour sunlight is more than enough. 

Rainbow shiner need a cooler setup and more oxygen. If you are planning on breeding them you'll have to watch everyday and catch when they spawn. They don't really need any plants since they aren't going to use it. .

I have kept them outside under freezing and most survive for the next year

 

[Flying fox 6523]

On 5/7/2023 at 1:01 PM, WhitecloudDynasty said:

I would keep them under the shade if you aren't going to run any pump.

White cloud is easy.. just fill it up and add the fish in 2 week later, plants is 100% up to you.3-5 hour sunlight is more than enough. 

Rainbow shiner need a cooler setup and more oxygen. If you are planning on breeding them you'll have to watch everyday and catch when they spawn. They don't really need any plants since they aren't going to use it. .

I have kept them outside under freezing and most survive for the next year

 

"Rainbow shiner need a cooler setup and more oxygen."
Okay, I can do that with the shiners, "White cloud is easy"
if you aren't going to run any pump. < I plan on a pump 
but I was thinking if the power went out & I was gone 
which 1 of the 2 would HAVE TO have a pump going.

From what I think your saying is the shiners have to have 
circulation & oxygen more than the white clouds right ?

I'll have to check out some of your videos on this to make 
sure to follow what you have done to succeed with them
can you send me some videos on this matter please ?

[Torrey]

On 5/6/2023 at 3:55 PM, Flying fox 6523 said:

How many would be a good start in a tub that size ?
I have plenty of air pumps to get air to the tank & I
have plenty of leaves (oak & tulip maple) & how 
cold can they be in without killing them? I have a 
good heater I can use.

I move my fish outside as soon as morning tub temperature is within 5° of morning inside tank temps, and do a slow acclimation.

WCMM are much more likely to overheat, than struggle with lower temperatures, and the rainbow shiners (by all research, I haven't kept them yet) require very oxygenated waters.

My outdoor tub gets no direct sunlight, and ~3 hours of reflected light, with 12 hours of indirect sunlight. My hard learning curve has been to ensure that I am supporting good microfauna growth before moving fish outdoors.... and to not be surprised when some of last year's fish spawns come up to say "hi" after the winter ice is finally all gone😏

Once I started dropping an LED light into the tub for the winter, I even had endlers survive the winter... with 2" of ice on most of the surface (water below the ice enjoyed the trapped heat from the LED, and didn't drop below 40°F)

Look forward to following your journey!

[Flying fox 6523]

On 5/7/2023 at 6:55 PM, Torrey said:

I move my fish outside as soon as morning tub temperature is within 5° of morning inside tank temps, and do a slow acclimation.

WCMM are much more likely to overheat, than struggle with lower temperatures, and the rainbow shiners (by all research, I haven't kept them yet) require very oxygenated waters.

My outdoor tub gets no direct sunlight, and ~3 hours of reflected light, with 12 hours of indirect sunlight. My hard learning curve has been to ensure that I am supporting good microfauna growth before moving fish outdoors.... and to not be surprised when some of last year's fish spawns come up to say "hi" after the winter ice is finally all gone😏

Once I started dropping an LED light into the tub for the winter, I even had endlers survive the winter... with 2" of ice on most of the surface (water below the ice enjoyed the trapped heat from the LED, and didn't drop below 40°F)

Look forward to following your journey!

I do have submersible lights, That's a really good Idea 
something I didn't even think about Thank you for the 
great tip, 👍 I'll have to remember that 1 for sure.

I had Pond goldfish in the stock tanks & being I sold 
them & not doing anything with them, I thought about 
starting a pond for the WCMM & another 1 for the 
rainbow shiners, which could hold a lot of fish in there.

And when it gets over crowded sell some off to the pet
store & get some extra credit for stuff or sell online ?
it just all depends on how things go the next 6 wks.

[Torrey]

LFS & local fish club are safest places to sell for the fish, due to current shipping issues @Flying fox 6523

I don't put the LED lights in until the daytime temps are consistently below 50° F, and water temperature is staying in the low 50s at the end of the day. Otherwise, it gets too warm 🥵 for the fish.

Not everyone has had success with hardy endlers surviving the winter, and my first spring to find endlers was completely accidental: I had gotten covid the year before, and simply didn't have the energy to fully break down the tubs.

That being said, I noticed a much higher breeding success rate the following summer, I believe due to more phytoplankton and microfauna being already established in the tub before I introduced more fish (the handful of endlers who survived winter simply couldn't put a dent in the population).

Everything has plusses and minuses, for me leaving the tub up year round with a submersible LED light for the winter outweighs the potential risks.

 

[Flying fox 6523]

On 5/7/2023 at 9:40 PM, Torrey said:

LFS & local fish club are safest places to sell for the fish, due to current shipping issues @Flying fox 6523

I don't put the LED lights in until the daytime temps are consistently below 50° F, and water temperature is staying in the low 50s at the end of the day. Otherwise, it gets too warm 🥵 for the fish.

Not everyone has had success with hardy endlers surviving the winter, and my first spring to find endlers was completely accidental: I had gotten covid the year before, and simply didn't have the energy to fully break down the tubs.

That being said, I noticed a much higher breeding success rate the following summer, I believe due to more phytoplankton and microfauna being already established in the tub before I introduced more fish (the handful of endlers who survived winter simply couldn't put a dent in the population).

Everything has plusses and minuses, for me leaving the tub up year round with a submersible LED light for the winter outweighs the potential risks.

 

 

Yea that's what I was thinking + I don't really like shipping fish 
so that's why I said sell them to the store when I get too many.

The submersible light sounds like a no brainer if you ask me 
cause you wouldn't use that much power as you would a
heater, the only thing I have noticed is they'd have to be 
winter tubes, cause the water even in all day shade still gets 
in the upper 80's so I can't risk that with either 1 of them.

[Torrey]

Exactly! The LED submersible light is only in my tub from November to March 

[Flying fox 6523]

On 5/7/2023 at 11:16 PM, Torrey said:

Exactly! The LED submersible light is only in my tub from November to March 

What kind of pump do you use & how big is your pond 
& how many fish do you put in the pond ?

[WhitecloudDynasty]

On 5/7/2023 at 2:47 PM, Flying fox 6523 said:

"Rainbow shiner need a cooler setup and more oxygen."
Okay, I can do that with the shiners, "White cloud is easy"
if you aren't going to run any pump. < I plan on a pump 
but I was thinking if the power went out & I was gone 
which 1 of the 2 would HAVE TO have a pump going.

From what I think your saying is the shiners have to have 
circulation & oxygen more than the white clouds right ?

I'll have to check out some of your videos on this to make 
sure to follow what you have done to succeed with them
can you send me some videos on this matter please ?

Correct..I raise white cloud in still water pond before and they do great. Bred 100s from just 2 pair within 4-5 month 

 

Rainbow shiner need higher DO. They can survive in warmer water as long as the DO is high. I caught some from very warm pool of water but it right next a a cool running stream.

[Flying fox 6523]

On 5/8/2023 at 11:37 PM, WhitecloudDynasty said:

Correct..I raise white cloud in still water pond before and they do great. Bred 100s from just 2 pair within 4-5 month 

 

Rainbow shiner need higher DO. They can survive in warmer water as long as the DO is high. I caught some from very warm pool of water but it right next a a cool running stream.

Rainbow shiner need higher DO < what is that "DO"
as long as the DO is high. I'm totally lost on what that is.

[WhitecloudDynasty]

On 5/9/2023 at 3:25 AM, Flying fox 6523 said:

Rainbow shiner need higher DO < what is that "DO"
as long as the DO is high. I'm totally lost on what that is.

Sorry lol

DO is dissolved oxygen