Multiple bettas in the same tank,,, Are they misunderstood??

[Lennie]

 

 

I know the first thing comes to our mind

Males will fight to death. Female betta sororities don't usually work out. You should only keep males and females together only when it is breeding time.

But recently, I have been doing a researching regarding this and it seems actually work quite well for some people if the conditions met.

What I observed as the common points are:

- They almost always keep plakats. I've seen one long fin male only but the rest was still plakats. 

- Avoiding reds seems like a good idea, as they are the ones bred for fighting purposes and one of the earliest ones that are bred by humans for this purpose it seems. Red is related with agression in one of the videos mention, not sure how true that is. Also seems like females choose the color red on males compared to others if I did not understand the scientific research I will be sharing at the end.

- Big tanks. Bettas do like to swim just like any other fish, and more bettas want more swimming and territory space. So generally 30-40g tanks for a group.

- Densely planted just as they like in their nature. Helps to make them feel comfy and also blocks sight and territories a lot. 

 

Has anyone kept males and females together here? If so what tank size, what was the ratio? I love these lil guys and I'm feeling they are a bit misunderstood lately. 

I know we usually say it depends on the bettas temperament, but let's be real, how possible to have 12 calm bettas at the same time without having a potentially agressive one.

 

Here are some videos:

 

Interesting scientific researches about betta genetics and colorations and their effects:

https://academic.oup.com/beheco/article/18/6/1139/211884

https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/sciadv.abm4955

 

Does anyone have such experience so far? 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Lennie

[Lennie]

As an update, another video I came by that explains stuff very well I believe:

 

Again, the points seeems like the key are: bigger tanks, territory/sight blocks with lots of plants it seems.

 

[TheSwissAquarist]

On 4/30/2023 at 1:13 PM, Lennie said:

 

 

I know the first thing comes to our mind

Males will fight to death. Female betta sororities don't usually work out. You should only keep males and females together only when it is breeding time.

But recently, I have been doing a researching regarding this and it seems actually work quite well for some people if the conditions met.

What I observed as the common points are:

- They almost always keep plakats. I've seen one long fin male only but the rest was still plakats. 

- Avoiding reds seems like a good idea, as they are the ones bred for fighting purposes and one of the earliest ones that are bred by humans for this purpose it seems. Red is related with agression in one of the videos mention, not sure how true that is. Also seems like females choose the color red on males compared to others if I did not understand the scientific research I will be sharing at the end.

- Big tanks. Bettas do like to swim just like any other fish, and more bettas want more swimming and territory space. So generally 30-40g tanks for a group.

- Densely planted just as they like in their nature. Helps to make them feel comfy and also blocks sight and territories a lot. 

 

Has anyone kept males and females together here? If so what tank size, what was the ratio? I love these lil guys and I'm feeling they are a bit misunderstood lately. 

I know we usually say it depends on the bettas temperament, but let's be real, how possible to have 12 calm bettas at the same time without having a potentially agressive one.

 

Here are some videos:

 

Interesting scientific researches about betta genetics and colorations and their effects:

https://academic.oup.com/beheco/article/18/6/1139/211884

https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/sciadv.abm4955

 

Does anyone have such experience so far? 

That’s some interesting stuff…though I’d rather not try it out on the grounds of not wanting to rehome half a ton of bettas if it doesn’t work out! The colors are cool tho…

[Lennie]

On 5/1/2023 at 5:01 PM, GCH said:

I have a male and female in a 2.5 g tank . He will just chase her away sometimes if she gets to close or he just wants to chase her a bit . No bites though . She is a tiny but growing one . Got her when she was so small I had to look close to see her in the little petco tub . Am looking to start up a 20 long and move them back into the ten gallon .

No stress stripes whatsoever? 

 

 

On 5/1/2023 at 5:44 PM, TheSwissAquarist said:

That’s some interesting stuff…though I’d rather not try it out on the grounds of not wanting to rehome half a ton of bettas if it doesn’t work out! The colors are cool tho…

Oh yea definitely. But I am very surprised to see the video comments and how many people actually mention they keep bettas as a group without even a single agression at all.

 

I mean let's be fair, even keeping cichlids like apistos, rams, angels, etc. which are commonly known as community tank cichlids can be very agressive from time to time. I feel like bettas are being pushed away.

 

Also, bettas at first were bred for fighting purposes, so they bred most agressive ones it seems. How about people start breeding the most docile ones for the hobby? That is a good question I came by. Genetics must be playing role on aggression if they are selectively bred for the most aggressive ones at first I believe.

 

Hey @Biotope Biologist, do you have any idea if breeding most aggressive or most docile fish would effect the behavior of the future generations?

[Sora]

I dont think this is a good Idea, I would get a separate tank for your female betta. 2.5 g is very small for ONE betta. and your female betta does not look happy at all. she has stress stripes and looks bloated which are both signs of stress...  might work in a bigger tank?

On 5/1/2023 at 11:24 AM, GCH said:

 

[Jackson]

On 5/1/2023 at 12:51 PM, GCH said:

Looking into another small tank for her . It was her or my new shrimp fry . So one or the other is going  to get stressed . She eats like a pig though .

 

 

On 5/1/2023 at 12:47 PM, Sora said:

I dont think this is a good Idea, I would get a separate tank for your female betta. 2.5 g is very small for ONE betta. and your female betta does not look happy at all. she has stress stripes and looks bloated which are both signs of stress...  might work in a bigger tank?

 

She does look a bit sad . I have been watching her and the bloating is new . She was black with blue fins though . Took a much closer look after Lennie''s question .Thought I would throw in the pics to get advise or opinions .He really doesn't bother her that much at all . Can see in the one pic she is swimming up close. Going to get a small nano tank and put her in that tomorrow . just ordered a nano sponge filter from here , and some slow sinking pellets  . I been feeding the bettas with little floating betta pellets . 

[Jackson]

Well . I bought her a small nano tank . All hooked up with some water sprite and a hut . Hopefully she will un stress and return to normal of what ever colors she is going to be .

[Jackson]

Bummer .... the nano has a crack in the tank . back to petco  . 

[Lennie]

Meanwhile If I were you I would introduce the sponge filter in an established tank to get it seeded if you dont have a spare one seeded on hand @GCH

[Guppysnail]

There is a betta breeder vendor that comes to all our club swaps. I talked to them because they always set up a tank at the swap with lots of betta. They swear betta do better in large groups and that they are a social fish and highly misunderstood. 
It’s always busy at their stand so I never got a lot of detailed information from them. 

[Lennie]

On 5/2/2023 at 6:43 PM, Guppysnail said:

There is a betta breeder vendor that comes to all our club swaps. I talked to them because they always set up a tank at the swap with lots of betta. They swear betta do better in large groups and that they are a social fish and highly misunderstood. 
It’s always busy at their stand so I never got a lot of detailed information from them. 

Yes!

It is amazing to hear it from someone that is very experienced with them.

I do believe they belong to groups as well.

Like cichlids and angels turn into monsters one day even kill their partners, but somehow it becomes like cichlids are cichlids, and they still are being kept in so many community tanks or cichlid tanks. 
 

Why bettas are so eliminated and people directly say it is impossible. During these researches I’ve come across so many people commenting and talking about their experience with how it actually works pretty good. 
 

Thanks for sharing it guppy, amazing to hear these fellas are misunderstood from a breeder too

[Jackson]

On 5/2/2023 at 11:24 AM, Lennie said:

Meanwhile If I were you I would introduce the sponge filter in an established tank to get it seeded if you dont have a spare one seeded on hand @GCH

No sponge to swap out . I have one coming tomorrow and could drop in in my 10g for a bit . could have used some water from that tank if it would do any good . She has her own space now and  hopefully will get better. Made it back to petco and home, set back up , about an hours time ... lol  NASCAR

Edited May 2, 2023 by GCH

[RockMongler]

I would mostly be cautious reading about it online because people say all kinds of things when projects like this go good, but don't share the times where it goes horribly wrong.  

But, a particularly large tank (40+ gallons), that is heavily planted... I'd believe they could make it work.  But, people like to put bettas into inhumanely small tanks, and are good at ignoring signs of stress or other problems until it's too late.  I'd personally rather not take the risk with these animals and put them into a situation that might result in injury or death.  It's the same reason I wouldn't bother with a cichlid community tank...  It can work, but it's going to be something you have to really stay on top of to make sure that the social dynamics in the tank are managed well.

If you try, good luck.  And please share your results!  The more people try, and the more accurate data people collect, the better we can understand the creatures we keep in our tanks.  

[Lennie]

On 5/2/2023 at 8:17 PM, RockMongler said:

I would mostly be cautious reading about it online because people say all kinds of things when projects like this go good, but don't share the times where it goes horribly wrong.  

But, a particularly large tank (40+ gallons), that is heavily planted... I'd believe they could make it work.  But, people like to put bettas into inhumanely small tanks, and are good at ignoring signs of stress or other problems until it's too late.  I'd personally rather not take the risk with these animals and put them into a situation that might result in injury or death.  It's the same reason I wouldn't bother with a cichlid community tank...  It can work, but it's going to be something you have to really stay on top of to make sure that the social dynamics in the tank are managed well.

If you try, good luck.  And please share your results!  The more people try, and the more accurate data people collect, the better we can understand the creatures we keep in our tanks.  

I already have a male in a 10g tank, and I got a pair today. I can put them in one of my tanks but I am not certain where they will go, or if they will go together for now. I have 3 options, so starting with a backup plan already otherwise I wouldnt get a pair ngl.

 

But I will surely update you guys in that regard and tell how it goes.

Tbh, I usually find horror stories being told more than good stories being told. 

I def agree btw, my guy loves to swim. I intentionally got him a shallow tank with a wide footprint, so he enjoys the tank for himself.  Bigger is better for sure. I may try the couple in my 33g tank. Or just put one in my 45 liters tub, and another to one of my community tanks. We will see how it goes

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Lennie

[TheSwissAquarist]

On 5/2/2023 at 5:43 PM, Guppysnail said:

There is a betta breeder vendor that comes to all our club swaps. I talked to them because they always set up a tank at the swap with lots of betta. They swear betta do better in large groups and that they are a social fish and highly misunderstood. 
It’s always busy at their stand so I never got a lot of detailed information from them. 

Did they say anything about the male/female ratio?

[Lennie]

On 5/2/2023 at 8:17 PM, RockMongler said:

If you try, good luck.  And please share your results!  The more people try, and the more accurate data people collect, the better we can understand the creatures we keep in our tanks.  

I sadly had to remove male from the female's tank, not because of the issues they have together *at least for now* but due to male having very long fins and the tank is full of plants and lots of driftwood, I worried he is gonna tear up the fins trying to swim around small gaps.

So I moved him into my tub where there is no driftwood but only smooth rocks and plants. I think that is much less risk for his fin health.

So at least for now, I can't try to keep a pair together forever sadly. Female is fast and she would eat all the endler babies I have in the tub if I move her there too :') 

[nabokovfan87]

a 5G tank is pretty affordable.  Especially on sale.  For me, in everything I've seen with species that aren't aggressive and end up being aggressive.... you end up with 1 of two situations happening.

A.  Fish jumps onto the floor because they constantly get bullied.
B.  Fish is so stressed out that they don't thrive and die. 

If you're really struggling to home them, have a divider ready to go on hand.   I don't like the solution of "add more to diffuse aggression" because I've seen 25+ barbs go down to a handful and I've seen the exact same behavior in both groups, which lead to a single fish being picked on.  YES, that is natural behavior for the fish.  Have a plan.  If you don't have the ability to have multiple groups of fish to diffuse aggression, the tank size to diffuse aggression, or dividers to diffuse aggression, then I hope there is a backup plan of some kind.

I am not saying it will/won't work.  I am simply saying to cover yourself in the instance you need to.  Be cautionary when running this type of experiment.  For bettas specifically, I have seen things in favor and against success.

[Jackson]

Female betta is doing well in her new home  . Color returning , eats like a pig and is a happy swimmer now .

[Jackson]

Still is recovering though . 

[Flipper]

On 4/30/2023 at 6:13 AM, Lennie said:

 

 

I know the first thing comes to our mind

Males will fight to death. Female betta sororities don't usually work out. You should only keep males and females together only when it is breeding time.

But recently, I have been doing a researching regarding this and it seems actually work quite well for some people if the conditions met.

What I observed as the common points are:

- They almost always keep plakats. I've seen one long fin male only but the rest was still plakats. 

- Avoiding reds seems like a good idea, as they are the ones bred for fighting purposes and one of the earliest ones that are bred by humans for this purpose it seems. Red is related with agression in one of the videos mention, not sure how true that is. Also seems like females choose the color red on males compared to others if I did not understand the scientific research I will be sharing at the end.

- Big tanks. Bettas do like to swim just like any other fish, and more bettas want more swimming and territory space. So generally 30-40g tanks for a group.

- Densely planted just as they like in their nature. Helps to make them feel comfy and also blocks sight and territories a lot. 

 

Has anyone kept males and females together here? If so what tank size, what was the ratio? I love these lil guys and I'm feeling they are a bit misunderstood lately. 

I know we usually say it depends on the bettas temperament, but let's be real, how possible to have 12 calm bettas at the same time without having a potentially agressive one.

 

Here are some videos:

 

Interesting scientific researches about betta genetics and colorations and their effects:

https://academic.oup.com/beheco/article/18/6/1139/211884

https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/sciadv.abm4955

 

Does anyone have such experience so far? 

@Lennie

Please don't do it.  Bettas have a hard enough time living alone. 

"I made the mistake of trying a female Betta sorority.  I bought 6 females at AquaShella, October 2021. I had to re-home all but one because they just couldn't get along.  Blue is still with me and doing well."

That's my advice for what it's worth.  Just like reading reviews about anything online.  Everybody has their own opinion.

[Lennie]

On 5/11/2023 at 11:13 PM, Flipper said:

@Lennie

Please don't do it.  Bettas have a hard enough time living alone. 

"I made the mistake of trying a female Betta sorority.  I bought 6 females at AquaShella, October 2021. I had to re-home all but one because they just couldn't get along.  Blue is still with me and doing well."

That's my advice for what it's worth.  Just like reading reviews about anything online.  Everybody has their own opinion.

Hey,

Thanks for sharing your experience!

How big was their tank and how densely planted was it? 

[Flipper]

On 5/11/2023 at 3:19 PM, Lennie said:

Hey,

Thanks for sharing your experience!

How big was their tank and how densely planted was it? 

@Lennie My tank was a 20 gallon tall, densely planted.  I'm not sure what might happen on a much larger tank, but it was heart breaking to see their fins all ripped up.  So, I'm sure not an expert on multiple Bettas together.  Before I started, I was told to add all fish at the same time, so they could sort out the pecking order together.  I have my single female betta in a community tank with no problems.  I have Harlequin Rasboras and Rummy-Nose Tetras with her.  For total of 9 small fishies.