Monte Carlo with no Co2

[Vítor]

Hey guys, i have 40cm cube and i do like the a carpet of Montecarlo or anything similar to that if you have any sugestions.

I dont have Co2 but i have aquasoil and some good lightning, i saw some people saying Monte carlo grow very slowly on a no Co2 tank but it grows.Do you think DSM would be a good option for me ? I will have some hardscape aswell which will take some space , but i still think it's a big area for Montecarlo to grow any of you know how many months would it take with DSM or without it?

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Vítor Hi! It's definitely doable. ESPECIALLY if you dry start the tank. @Patrick_G did it with one of his small tanks and encouraged me to as well when I started a 12G long. You can get your carpet full or just started and fill the tank after. Yes Monte Carlo takes a lot longer in a no co2 situation, but I've found that to be a good thing as it is less maintenance. Planting while the tank is full was a fail for me in the past. With dry starting the roots attach better and it grows faster and covers faster. If you have the patience for it (because it will take time) I highly recommend. 

[Vítor]

On 4/28/2023 at 4:47 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

@Vítor Hi! It's definitely doable. ESPECIALLY if you dry start the tank. @Patrick_G did it with one of his small tanks and encouraged me to as well when I started a 12G long. You can get your carpet full or just started and fill the tank after. Yes Monte Carlo takes a lot longer in a no co2 situation, but I've found that to be a good thing as it is less maintenance. Planting while the tank is full was a fail for me in the past. With dry starting the roots attach better and it grows faster and covers faster. If you have the patience for it (because it will take time) I highly recommend. 

Good to know! But Im a student and im away from my tank and i don't really want it to grow fast because that means i would need someone to trim it, but im doing some big changes on my tank , i will have to cycle it again and do it from the beggining so i don't know DSM or Full tank will be the best because i have to do all this during the summer . I just want to stable it and let it grow.So which one do you think would be best for my situation?😅 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

If summer is somewhere around 2-3 months I'd do the dry start method. You could let it grow for a month- granted it won't necessarily be a full carpet UNLESS you get a LOT of Monte, then you'd be fine. It will give you time to design the tank, grow moss if you want and do research on anything else going in the tank when full. 

I let mine go about 5 weeks, it's still growing now that the tank is full but slowly. Which I prefer. 

[Lennie]

On 4/28/2023 at 7:25 PM, Vítor said:

Good to know! But Im a student and im away from my tank and i don't really want it to grow fast because that means i would need someone to trim it, but im doing some big changes on my tank , i will have to cycle it again and do it from the beggining so i don't know DSM or Full tank will be the best because i have to do all this during the summer . I just want to stable it and let it grow.So which one do you think would be best for my situation?😅 

If you have aquasoil, that means you will need to do constant water changes anyway. It leeches like crazy, and plants can't keep up with those nutritions in the first month where the soil leeches A LOT.

So you will want to be checking your tank constantly if you use aquasoil, otherwise, you will likely face crazy level of algae with all the nutritiens constantly leeching

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Lennie I think as a general statement that can be true but not always. I used Fluval Stratum and Eco Complete (and I've seen several posts about how these could "leech" into the tank) in my 12G long. It's a very small tank. I dry started it with the monte carlo. The substrate was not covered entirely so it could theoretically "leach". I had zero spikes in anything. It's something to look for in a tank with any sort of planting substrate but not everyone will have this experience. You'll get more algae in a tank with nutrients too, however all new tanks experience these growing pains as well. 

I do agree it's good to test new tanks frequently to make sure these spikes do not happen. 

[Lennie]

On 4/28/2023 at 9:27 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

@Lennie I think as a general statement that can be true but not always. I used Fluval Stratum and Eco Complete (and I've seen several posts about how these could "leech" into the tank) in my 12G long. It's a very small tank. I dry started it with the monte carlo. The substrate was not covered entirely so it could theoretically "leach". I had zero spikes in anything. It's something to look for in a tank with any sort of planting substrate but not everyone will have this experience. You'll get more algae in a tank with nutrients too, however all new tanks experience these growing pains as well. 

I do agree it's good to test new tanks frequently to make sure these spikes do not happen. 

Idk about fluval one, I just have experience with tropica in 3 tanks, and it leeches a lot ngl. I know ADA leeches even more, but no clue about the stratum

But even then, to keep parameters in check, you have to have hands on the tank again to monitor. Still comes to the same point I believe!

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Yes it is true, whenever you start a tank you test frequently no matter what tank it is.

[Vítor]

On 4/28/2023 at 8:09 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Yes it is true, whenever you start a tank you test frequently no matter what tank it is.

Yes sure , i've been readung about DSM and i found out that it cycles the tank aswell is it true ?

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Some of what it may leach could be read as ammonia or just a ton of nitrates. Depends on what you use, your water, etc. This can theoretically speed up the cycle. 

Edited April 28 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[Martin]

@xXInkedPhoenixX Can you tell me about the dry starting process for monte carlo?  I'm assuming you are planting it into the substrate with little water and letting it root into before proceeding to full submersion or something similar.  I love the plant but it aggravates me to no end when planting due to the shallow roots and tendency to float.  It sounds like something I need to consider as I have about 6 decent-sized patches just floating and waiting for use.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Absolutely @Martin. It's actually very easy and I'd highly recommend it. I tried planting Monte in a filled tank and it just never did anything (and I'm no co2). Actually @Patrick_G suggested it. You can see what he and later I did on my build thread for my Medieval tank starting here:

But plain and simple, in a new tank, add the substrate of your choice, I did Eco complete and Fluval Stratum. I dry started Monte just by tearing up a piece shipped to me. (Patrick did even smaller pieces) I then put a little water in the bottom of the tank, plastic wrapped the top and sprayed the dry start plants every day. I believe I waited 5-6 weeks. My Monte is still doing well- I could have let it go a bit longer but I was eager to fill the tank and didn't care if there wasn't a full carpet yet. If you have the patience/time OR just a lot of Monte, it's super easy to do. 

Though he uses co2 I followed SOME of this guy's advice: 

 

 

[Patrick_G]

It’s a really easy process. Here’s the basic TLDR version: 

What you need: 

tank, aquasoil, MC tissue cultures, plastic wrap, aquarium light. 

-set up tank with damp aquasoil

-break up the MC into small pieces so it can be spead evenly over the aquasoil. 
- mist the MC and then cover the tank with plastic wrap. 
-run your light on full blast for 12-18 hours a day

-mist every other day or as needed until the MC roots and starts growing

 

 

 

Here’s a few pics of the first tank I set up this way

 

Edited May 9 by Patrick_G

[Martin]

That looks fantastic!  Thanks for the tips, I really didn't know what to do with my MC as everything I tried to keep it in place has utterly failed.  I'm going to give this a try, though it means I would need to start another tank and my wife might leave me.

 

@Patrick_G From your photos, it looks like you did this with other plants in the tank.  Will this work while keeping the other plants safe?  Are there any plants that you really shouldn't do this with?  I have other plants I'd like to use, but don't want to accidently kill them in the process of dry starting the MC.  Also, do you think this would work with gravel?

Edited May 9 by Martin

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Anything that can be grown in/out of water should do fine with dry start I did java moss and S.Repens with the Monte. If it's a full aquatic plant or a plant you were already growing in water potential loss of the plant would have me just throwing it in a QT until ready to replant. 

[Patrick_G]

On 5/9/2023 at 9:00 AM, Martin said:

From your photos, it looks like you did this with other plants in the tank.  Will this work while keeping the other plants safe?  Are there any plants that you really shouldn't do this with?  I have other plants I'd like to use, but don't want to accidently kill them in the process of dry starting the MC.  Also, do you think this would work with gravel?

 I had originally started the tank as a sort of Wabi Kusa  experiment in growing aquarium plants emersed, then I decided to try the dry start carpet method as another experiment. You could go two ways, either add some plants during the dry period or start the carpet first and add plants later. Like @xXInkedPhoenixX mentioned, you’ll just want to avoid fully aquatic and plants during the dry start. I think most epiphytes and tissue cultures should work. 

[Martin]

On 5/9/2023 at 1:53 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

If it's a full aquatic plant or a plant you were already growing in water potential loss of the plant would have me just throwing it in a QT until ready to replant. 

Yup, this was my concern.  I figured you would basically be doing the whole emersed plant melting when planted in a tank, but backwards.  Ugh!  TOO MANY FISH TANKZZZZZZZZ!!!

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

On 5/9/2023 at 1:16 PM, Martin said:

Yup, this was my concern.  I figured you would basically be doing the whole emersed plant melting when planted in a tank, but backwards.  Ugh!  TOO MANY FISH TANKZZZZZZZZ!!!

Haa, yea sorry my friend!