Gutting Stratum from my planted tank

[evonner]

So I'm going to gut my 10 gallon planted tank today. Im removing the Fluval stratum and replacing with eco-complete.  I have to carefully remove the plants without killing them. I have stems and bulbs. Any advice?

My stratum is almost 2 years old and I believe its being problematic. I can't properly vacuum so it's getting gutted out.

[ScottieB]

I’m sure you have your reasons for wanting to remove it. I might just encourage you to leave it though. I wouldn’t bother vacuuming a planted tank, but that’s just me. 

I think to remove the plants you’re gonna have to get fingers under deep under the roots all they through the substrate and gently tease them up. 

Depending on the plants you’re working with you might get some melting/die back when they get replanted. Should be fine eventually though. 
 

 

[jwcarlson]

This is how I would approach it.

Remove all livestock into a bucket.

Take your siphon and remove the "gravel vac" part so that you've just got a smaller hose vs the larger tube.  This increases water velocity at the point of suction.  Start a siphon and use that smaller hose to suck up the Stratum around the plants and roots.  It's going to be a big mess, but there's no way of doing this without making one.  You might be able to remove the vast majority of the substrate without massively disturbing the plants.  Then you can put your new in and might not really have to move the at all if you're careful.  I wouldn't try it in a bigger tank.  But in a 10 gallon it might work.  I've removed sand with this technique.  If you're vacuuming into a bucket that would work.  If you're using something like a Python draining into a sink - I used a bucket and siphoned into that in the sink and then the water overflowed the bucket into the sink/drain.  Most of the sand settled out in the bucket that way.  Stratum, I think, would be similar, you might have to tweak flow a bit to make sure it doesn't stir up in the bucket too much.

I've got Stratum in service for about two years and it seems fine to me.  I've never "gravel vac'd" it though.  

Edited April 13, 2023 by jwcarlson

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

I have sand and when I vac I just swirl the siphon above the sand to stir up stuff and suck it into the vac. Perhaps this could work for you with Stratum?

[Lennie]

Would enriching soil with tabs and topping it with eco complete would be an option instead of removing it all? What do you think?

[evonner]

I'm going to upload some pics. This was my first tank. I have stratum capped with smaller gravel then larger. I want to replace the substrate with eco-complete so I can vacuum it well. This tank is hard to get all the dead plant debris without pulling up some of the stratum.  My plants have been suffering most have died and I need a solution.  This tank pops for ammonia with no fish in it. I think it's because I disturb the stratum. I'm getting zero ammonia in my tap water on my last testing of my tap water. My parameters are good. I was fighting an algae issue but that's under control now. This tank is working on 2 years old.

@Lennie

 

I'm going to upload some pics. This was my first tank. I have stratum capped with smaller gravel then larger. I want to replace the substrate with eco-complete so I can vacuum it well. This tank is hard to get all the dead plant debris without pulling up some of the stratum.  My plants have been suffering most have died and I need a solution.  This tank pops for ammonia with no fish in it. I think it's because I disturb the stratum. I'm getting zero ammonia in my tap water on my last testing of my tap water. My parameters are good. I was fighting an algae issue but that's under control now. This tank is working on 2 years old.

[evonner]

@Lennie

@ScottieB. @Chick-In-Of-TheSea. @nabokovfan87. @Mmiller2001. @rockfisher

I'm going to upload some pics. This was my first tank. I have stratum capped with smaller gravel then larger. I want to replace the substrate with eco-complete so I can vacuum it well. This tank is hard to get all the dead plant debris without pulling up some of the stratum.  My plants have been suffering most have died and I need a solution.  This tank pops for ammonia with no fish in it. I think it's because I disturb the stratum. I'm getting zero ammonia in my tap water on my last testing of my tap water. My parameters are good. I was fighting an algae issue but that's under control now. This tank is working on 2 years old.

[jwcarlson]

You can pop ammonia on certain tests if you're using dechlorinator.

[evonner]

I do you a dechlorinator 

So do you all think I should remove the stratum?

[rockfisher]

What are you getting for ammonia. Some is going to be ok with plants, bit you can have to much. I tend not to vac tanks very often because there are plants in the way. I get the vacuum near an get with I can. There are times when I get a build up around a plant and remove some debris with long reach assigners that short people like myself. If you think it’s going to help go for it. Fines can be a pain are not for every one or every . Feel free to ask more. I have been under the weather so I my take a few days to get back. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/12/2023 at 10:39 AM, evonner said:

I have stems and bulbs. Any advice?

For stems and basically all plants that send runners I tend to use a "claw method".  I will take my hand and fingers a distance away from where any plants are and then gently feel under the substrate for the root system.  Gently disturb and loosen the substrate around where I feel the roots, as I guide my hand under the base of the plant, then claw machine the entire plant up while supporting the plant. 

Generally that works well for me and keeps the plants whole as much as I can manage.  I toss those into a container or bucket and then keep them wet until replanting.

On 4/13/2023 at 3:18 PM, evonner said:

I'm going to upload some pics. This was my first tank. I have stratum capped with smaller gravel then larger. I want to replace the substrate with eco-complete so I can vacuum it well.

How long has it been setup?  What do you plan to replace it with apart from eco complete.  Eco complete is essentially lava rocks that is in a certain particle size.

Corvus Oscen, Pecktec, and a few others have a nice series of videos discussing substrate.  Corvus has a really good one.  He talks about the tank setup and his method, the logic as to why.  He uses a soil based substrate and then uses something that will store nutrients as well.  Eco complete would be the second in that category as the nutrients can get stuck into the holes in the substrate itself and the plants can then feed off of that.

A finer substrate would be a bit easier to clean as it keeps the things at the top of the surface.  Larger size gravel does this....

This is often why it's recommended for corydoras and bottom feeders to have a specific granule size in the substrate that is finer.

On 4/13/2023 at 7:25 PM, evonner said:

My plants have been suffering most have died and I need a solution.  This tank pops for ammonia with no fish in it. I think it's because I disturb the stratum. I'm getting zero ammonia in my tap water on my last testing of my tap water. My parameters are good. I was fighting an algae issue but that's under control now. This tank is working on 2 years old.

I had sand capped stratum in a tank that very quickly became sand in one spot and stratum in another.  I can pretty much guarantee based on that experience that the stratum being exposed to the surface isn't causing ammonia. 

What was mentioned above was the issue of chloramines in the water, especially in your tap water.  If you dechlorinate your tap water and it has chloramine, that frees it up to then have ammonia or to show an ammonia reading. 

Does your tap water show ammonia before doing anything to it on your testing?
What are the testing results you're seeing in the tank itself?  (a buildup of waste could show ammonia as well)

[Lennie]

I don't understand how a 2yo soil would be leeching ammonia, especially fluval one. Fluval one is not even known to be leeching much when it’s new! 
there must be something else other than the soil I believe.

If I were you, I would leave the soil, remove gravel, enrich soil with roottabs, and top iy with ecocomplete.

[evonner]

@Lennie that was going to be my next question to you guys (remove gravel, cap stratum with eco-complete).

@nabokovfan87 Lately im not showing any ammonia in the tap but i was after our city community well had equipment failure. The tank is also currently testing zero for ammonia.  I feel that poop, food and dead plant debris has gone through the gravel and into the Stratum but idk. I do know that when vacuum during my weeking water changes, it's like filthy and I eventually have to stop so I don't exceed a 50% water change.  There has not been any livestock in there until yesterday.  I went to Petco to pickup the eco-complete and found a rare guppy there and I had to have him. And I also grabbed a couple of ghost shrimp. I have watched videos with sand as the substrate and I'm just liking it. What do you think about Lennie's idea to take out the gravel and cap with eco-complete.  

I just really want to deep vacuum that stratum but it's said not to ever vacuum stratum.  So I'm paranoid about that.  But I think it needs it.

@rockfisher It was testing positive for ammonia at .25 even after a week of being in the tank and with no livestock. But my tap was also testing at .25. I realize thats not much but I need to correct whatever the heck is causing it.

FYI- When my tap was popping for ammonia the other 2 tanks trsting for 0 ammonia. Weird. And im running ammonia remover in my 10 gallon (the one i want to gut) and also in my 29 gallon filters. The 10 gallon tank has an AquaClear 20 on it. I just bought a 30 for it. Im running 2 AquaClear 50's on my 29 gallon cuz im overstocked and that tank never gives me hell except for nitrates. Its a community tank and some species need lower nitrate levels.

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/14/2023 at 6:16 PM, evonner said:

What do you think about Lennie's idea to take out the gravel and cap with eco-complete.  

It's all about how easy it can be to take the gravel out.  If it's easy for you to do, that's awesome and you can even remove the stratum and use it elsewhere.  I would tend to lean towards a good siphon first before doing anything.  Siphon the substrate as you see fit and if you remove the gravel than you can clean the stratum more easily and check on what is going on in terms of waste. 

You can take a scoop of the stratum, put it into a container and run a leech test.  Let it sit for a few days and then test it for ammonia or other issues that you're seeing. 

[evonner]

@nabokovfan87. I have 2 hand gravel vacs. A smaller one and a Fluval 24" Gravel Vac. 

I think draining some of the water and remove the bigger gravel by hand then suck out the smaller gravel with a gravel vac or scoop the smaller taking a small layer of the stratum with it might be easier. I have a bottle of FritzZyme 7 .

I need to remove the 2 shrimp and guppy first and I think I should transfer then to another tank until I know the 10 gallon is stable after I mess with it. Do you agree?

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/14/2023 at 9:32 PM, evonner said:

I need to remove the 2 shrimp and guppy first and I think I should transfer then to another tank until I know the 10 gallon is stable after I mess with it. Do you agree?

You can put them into a bucket while you work, basically any tank you can do this and move them temporarily.  I move them to a bucket with tank water. I add an airstone and the bag of ceramic media to the base of the bucket and run an airstone.  If you have a sponge filter, I just put the whole thing in the bucket.  I put a lid over the bucket or a towel and try to let them just chill out.

First lower the water by 50%, then remove the fish while ensuring they are comfortable, and finally I will do whatever work on the tank.  If you're removing gravel, it's usually easiest to remove hardscape (another bucket) and then plants (another bucket with water).

On 4/14/2023 at 9:32 PM, evonner said:

I think draining some of the water and remove the bigger gravel by hand then suck out the smaller gravel with a gravel vac or scoop the smaller taking a small layer of the stratum with it might be easier. I have a bottle of FritzZyme 7 .

You shouldn't need any bacteria, but you may add it if you feel like it would help.  I tend to use a net to remove substrate.  I have a Marina cheap one I got for $2 that I don't mine bending a lot.  Another option is a plastic solo cup.  Once upon a time I tried to use a strainer (fine mesh) to remove the fine sand from the stratum and it really didn't work.  Within about 2 minutes that broke and I ended up tossing all the sand I had 😞 .

Whatever you need to do, you can just remove the substrate you'd like to, siphon the tank down from 50% to about 80% drained and then refill it at that point.  Add the fish back, and then figure out the next steps from there.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

I would recommend adding Prime in case of ammonia, then pull up plants. To prevent root damage get your fingers down under the roots and wiggle fingers to loosen roots.

Only vac the front and sides of the stratum next to the glass.

Add a sand cap using the mess free method (no cloudy water) described as follows.

-add sand to jug

-add water, shake, and pour off cloudy water (not in drain- use a bucket). Repeat process until water is mostly clear.

-submerge bottle and tip over

-aim for a 2” sand cap if you can

-replant plants in sand part only so as not to disturb stratum. The roots will reach down to the gross stratum and will love what they find. But it will look nice to you since you vac next to the glass.

 

[evonner]

Well I need to let the water settle cuz I can't see anything.  I've been removing the gravel with my hand after I couldn't see anything. I still have a sword and two bulbs in there. I'm gonna keep some stratum but get the ick out of it. When I can figure out how to do a tank diary, I will explain the tragedy of this tank and how I saved it and why I'm doing what I'm doing to it now.

[nabokovfan87]

Looks good! I know it seems like a mess but that's entirely normal. You can just replace the water as you need to siphon it out.  Common technique is to fill it as you drain it, but usually that is just with RO or prepared water I would imagine due to chlorine.

[evonner]

I prepared over 8 gallons of water last night. I'm done now. I have 2 HOB running to help clear the water. In a bit I will run tests the put the shrimp and guppy back in if all is good.

[evonner]

Here is the end result.  It looks bare but I think now this tank and the plants have a chance now.