Meds for parasites

[Jesse L]

How soon after treating with para cleanse can I treat with expel-p. Corydoras still wasting and very lethargic 

[Cory]

I'm not sure, I usually wait 2 weeks between parasite treatments.

[nabokovfan87]

CC @Odd Duck

With regards to the method outlined for me, I dose them within 24 hours.  Meaning....

Day 1: Expel-P, black out tank for 24 hours. 
Day 2-6: Water change, siphon the substrate well, then dose in your paracleanse per the directions on the box.  (4 days)
Day 7: rest
Day 8: repeat

This was the regime I followed with Odd_Ducks recommendation:

Quote

Week 1: WC and siphon, levamisole and blackout, siphon and WC, prazi.

Week 2: WC and siphon, levamisole and blackout, siphon and WC.

Week 3: WC and siphon, levamisole and blackout, siphon and WC, prazi.

Week 4: WC and siphon, levamisole and blackout, siphon and WC.

Week 5: WC and siphon, levamisole and blackout, siphon and WC, prazi (or can do only prazi this week and skip 5th treatment of levamisole).

Week 6: WC and siphon, then back to routine maintenance.

I would ask OD to expand on this as they've been helping @Lennie with his parasite treatment, guided me through mine, and it's awesome information that has been dialed in for which med, how often and how long.  It's a really good treatment plan that worked very well.

As for your corydoras, if you need any specific guidance on treatment or what could be going on with the fish, I'd recommend creating a thread for the issue in the disease section, or add onto this one, with photos and water testing results (including temperature).

I wish you the best, please feel better little cory!

Here is the video for Cory's recommendations on the meds.  He does discuss both paracleanse and Expel-P.   As mentioned, it is less stress if you can give the fish breaks on treatments (meaning paracleanse vs. expel-p).  If you're treating for a known illness, as mentioned you'd want to do a few weeks of treatment, several rounds of the same med.
 

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by nabokovfan87

[Odd Duck]

The key with treating for parasites is all in the timing.  You want to hit the parasite at a vulnerable stage where it is susceptible to the drug plus hit it before it can complete its life cycle and make more parasites.  The timing I recommend is designed around those ideas.  I’ll post the entire plan and it has a condensed timing laid out at the end.  This is about treating for the most common parasites.  There is not a single or even a pair or trio of meds that can eliminate every fish parasite.  They are too varied in their different species and metabolisms for that to happen.  Different medications work differently in the water, in the fish’s body, and in the parasites body.  This schedule is Lao condensed as much as possible to get the deworming done during a fairly normal quarantine period.  If you are only concerned about Camallanus and other nematode type worms, then you can do only the Levamisole for 4 treatments and skip the Praziquantal.

Deworming

Siphon out debris from the bottom before and after dosing to remove any expelled worms, eggs, debris, etc.  Levamisole is inactivated by organic debris and by light, so dose after lights out and black out the tank for 24 hours, remove organics via water changes and cleaning the bottom of debris as much as possible.

It’s likely that levamisole does what it can do within the first hour, but best to follow directions precisely.  If you have a bare bottom hospital tank available, it might be best and easiest to transfer the fish to that tank for the duration of treatment - up to 5 weeks total treatment time if doing 3 doses of praziquantal.

Levamisole treatment should be weekly for 4 treatments.  Praziquantal treatment should be every other week (at least) for 2-3 treatments and it is left in for a week at a time.  It can be dosed the day after levamisole treatment.  Remove any carbon or Purigen from filters before dosing.

Have enough dechlorinated water to do a 50% water change immediately if any adverse symptoms are seen in the fish.

A typical treatment regimen: 

1. 50% water change with careful siphoning of debris from the bottom of the tank.

2. Dose with levamisole and black out the tank for 24 hours.  Then 50% water change siphoning the entire bottom of the tank.

3. Dose with praziquantal directly after the second 50% WC.

4. One week later, 50% water change siphoning the bottom thoroughly.  Dose with levamisole following directions in step 1-2.

5. One week later (start of week 3 of treatment), repeat all steps 1-4 over another 2 weeks time.

6. Repeat all steps 1-5, then do last WC one week later after third dose of praziquantal.

Not all snails will tolerate treatments, so best to remove any snails in the tank.

 

Condensed, weekly schedule:

Week 1: siphon debris and do 50% water change, levamisole x 24 hrs, siphon.  Treat with praziquantal and leave in until next week.

Week 2: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon.

Week 3: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon, then prazi.

Week 4: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon.

Week 5: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon, then prazi.

Week 6: siphon.

[Jesse L]

On 4/11/2023 at 8:15 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

CC @Odd Duck

With regards to the method outlined for me, I dose them within 24 hours.  Meaning....

Day 1: Expel-P, black out tank for 24 hours. 
Day 2-6: Water change, siphon the substrate well, then dose in your paracleanse per the directions on the box.  (4 days)
Day 7: rest
Day 8: repeat

This was the regime I followed with Odd_Ducks recommendation:

I would ask OD to expand on this as they've been helping @Lennie with his parasite treatment, guided me through mine, and it's awesome information that has been dialed in for which med, how often and how long.  It's a really good treatment plan that worked very well.

As for your corydoras, if you need any specific guidance on treatment or what could be going on with the fish, I'd recommend creating a thread for the issue in the disease section, or add onto this one, with photos and water testing results (including temperature).

I wish you the best, please feel better little cory!

Here is the video for Cory's recommendations on the meds.  He does discuss both paracleanse and Expel-P.   As mentioned, it is less stress if you can give the fish breaks on treatments (meaning paracleanse vs. expel-p).  If you're treating for a known illness, as mentioned you'd want to do a few weeks of treatment, several rounds of the same med.
 

 

Thanks, really appreciate the help!!

[Jesse L]

On 4/11/2023 at 7:51 PM, Cory said:

I'm not sure, I usually wait 2 weeks between parasite treatments.

 

On 4/12/2023 at 7:24 AM, Odd Duck said:

The key with treating for parasites is all in the timing.  You want to hit the parasite at a vulnerable stage where it is susceptible to the drug plus hit it before it can complete its life cycle and make more parasites.  The timing I recommend is designed around those ideas.  I’ll post the entire plan and it has a condensed timing laid out at the end.  This is about treating for the most common parasites.  There is not a single or even a pair or trio of meds that can eliminate every fish parasite.  They are too varied in their different species and metabolisms for that to happen.  Different medications work differently in the water, in the fish’s body, and in the parasites body.  This schedule is Lao condensed as much as possible to get the deworming done during a fairly normal quarantine period.  If you are only concerned about Camallanus and other nematode type worms, then you can do only the Levamisole for 4 treatments and skip the Praziquantal.

Deworming

Siphon out debris from the bottom before and after dosing to remove any expelled worms, eggs, debris, etc.  Levamisole is inactivated by organic debris and by light, so dose after lights out and black out the tank for 24 hours, remove organics via water changes and cleaning the bottom of debris as much as possible.

It’s likely that levamisole does what it can do within the first hour, but best to follow directions precisely.  If you have a bare bottom hospital tank available, it might be best and easiest to transfer the fish to that tank for the duration of treatment - up to 5 weeks total treatment time if doing 3 doses of praziquantal.

Levamisole treatment should be weekly for 4 treatments.  Praziquantal treatment should be every other week (at least) for 2-3 treatments and it is left in for a week at a time.  It can be dosed the day after levamisole treatment.  Remove any carbon or Purigen from filters before dosing.

Have enough dechlorinated water to do a 50% water change immediately if any adverse symptoms are seen in the fish.

A typical treatment regimen: 

1. 50% water change with careful siphoning of debris from the bottom of the tank.

2. Dose with levamisole and black out the tank for 24 hours.  Then 50% water change siphoning the entire bottom of the tank.

3. Dose with praziquantal directly after the second 50% WC.

4. One week later, 50% water change siphoning the bottom thoroughly.  Dose with levamisole following directions in step 1-2.

5. One week later (start of week 3 of treatment), repeat all steps 1-4 over another 2 weeks time.

6. Repeat all steps 1-5, then do last WC one week later after third dose of praziquantal.

Not all snails will tolerate treatments, so best to remove any snails in the tank.

 

Condensed, weekly schedule:

Week 1: siphon debris and do 50% water change, levamisole x 24 hrs, siphon.  Treat with praziquantal and leave in until next week.

Week 2: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon.

Week 3: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon, then prazi.

Week 4: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon.

Week 5: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon, then prazi.

Week 6: siphon.

Thanks, will definitely give this a try. 

On 4/11/2023 at 7:51 PM, Cory said:

I'm not sure, I usually wait 2 weeks between parasite treatments.

On 4/13/2023 at 10:37 PM, Jesse L said:

 

Thanks, will definitely give this a try. 

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Jesse L

[Jesse L]

@Odd Duck after dosing with levamisole and water change 24 hrs after do you use prazipro or para cleanse? If it’s para- cleanse do you dose the second time in the middle of the treatment like instructions say

[Jesse L]

@nabokovfan87 after the 24 hours with lavamisole and doing 50% water change, when treating with para cleanse  do you add the second dose of para cleanse on the third day or just one dose

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/21/2023 at 3:56 PM, Jesse L said:

@nabokovfan87 after the 24 hours with lavamisole and doing 50% water change, when treating with para cleanse  do you add the second dose of para cleanse on the third day or just one dose

Let me grab the directions to double check what is being done....

Alright so. Expel-p = levamisole is a one day treatment (24 hours)

Then you move to paracleanse, which is your 2 doses over 5 days as directed on the box.

For paracleanse:

Day One - add meds

Day three - add meds

Day five - water change.

[Jesse L]

@nabokovfan87 thanks 🙏🏻 

[Odd Duck]

On 12/21/2023 at 11:35 AM, Jesse L said:

@Odd Duck after dosing with levamisole and water change 24 hrs after do you use prazipro or para cleanse? If it’s para- cleanse do you dose the second time in the middle of the treatment like instructions say

Sorry I’ve been absent from the forum for a bit.  Got very sick with something stomach and just getting back to normal yesterday.  ParaCleanse has both the Praziquantal and Metronidazole.  It depends on what I’m trying to treat whether I recommend metronidazole or not.  I follow the listing exactly how I have it above if I’m aiming at the most common intestinal parasites.  Metronidazole certainly has uses as well and Paracleanse can be substituted in the regimen for straight Praziquantal of PraziPro if that’s what you can get.

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/27/2023 at 8:41 AM, Odd Duck said:

Got very sick with something stomach and just getting back to normal yesterday.  

Glad you're ok and feeling better!

[Jesse L]

@Odd Duck no worries! Glad to hear you’re better. 

[Odd Duck]

On 12/27/2023 at 6:12 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Glad you're ok and feeling better!

 

On 12/27/2023 at 7:38 PM, Jesse L said:

@Odd Duck no worries! Glad to hear you’re better. 

Thank you both.  Much better now than I was.  Still not 100% yet but getting there.