How to catch all the shrimp in a tall curved tank, so I can get rid of the leeches? Please give my your thoughts.

[KittenFishMom]

I have a tall half cylinder 10 gallon tank with blue dream neo shrimp and a lot of snails and some plants. It also has leeches.

I want to remove the potting soil and sand capped substrate and all the leeches. and put in new substrate without potting soil, then return  some of the snail and all of the shrimp plants. (I will put the plants through RR).

Problems I expect to run into:

1) Getting all the shrimp out, with the plants and different hiding places.

2) Holding the shrimp someplace where that will be leech free, and the shrimp will be happy with the water parms and food supply.

3) Returning the shrimp to an un-aged tank with no real biofilm for the shrimp to live on.

The potting soil seems to be using my KH and lowering my pH and I I don't like the pH swings every time I change the water. I have been trying to drip in some concentrated KH, but it seems to be used as fast as I add it.  I have also added some crushed coral, but that doesn't seem to make any difference either. I only add a little crushed coral at a time because I don't want the water parms to change too fast for the shrimp. I know too much calcium is as bad as not enough.

I am also really tired of seeing the leeches. I don't think they both with the shrimp. but the snail population seems to keep them well fed and reproducing. I really want to have stable water and the leeches gone.

I'm open to any advice or suggestions. 

Once the corys get rehomed, I could use one of those tanks because they are leech free. One is bare bottom with floating plants, the other has sand but more cory eggs hatching all the time until I get rehome the last adult female. 

THANK YOU IN ADVANCE !!!

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Feed the shrimp, they will all congregate at their favorite food. Mine go nuts for Soilent green Repashy.
 

Also when you take something out of the water that a shrimp is attached to, the shrimp usually jumps off when it feels the air. When removing plants, do it slowly and let the plant stay above the tank for a few seconds to give them the opportunity to leave. You can also put your plants in a white bucket, then inspect the bucket after.

To hold the shrimp somewhere, 5g bucket with heater & sponge filter. If you don’t want to catch them all again, Breeder box within the bucket. But shrimplets can fit through the breeder box holes. Adults will stay in there - make sure the breeder box has a lid!

for #3 use bacter ae, it will coat the surfaces with biofilm. As well as use moss, catappa leaves, cholla wood, driftwood, and/or alder cones.

How many inches was your sand cap? If you go a generous two inches with sand, the soil should not have an effect on the water, but will be available to plant roots. But when maintaining the tank you’d need to be super careful not to disturb that sand layer.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[KittenFishMom]

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea There are a lot of snails in the tank. I think the shrimp eat a lot of the snail poo because they do not show interest when I drop in a bit of any of the snail food I offer. I have Snowflake, Bactr AE, and a pellet no one in any of my tanks likes but the snails, and some shrimp sticks.

This doesn't have to happen right away. I am trying to get a game plan figured out before I try to move anything. I could start trying to take the snails out. I won't get all of them, but it might make the shrimp a bit more hungry.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 4/11/2023 at 4:06 PM, KittenFishMom said:

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea There are a lot of snails in the tank. I think the shrimp eat a lot of the snail poo because they do not show interest when I drop in a bit of any of the snail food I offer. I have Snowflake, Bactr AE, and a pellet no one in any of my tanks likes but the snails, and some shrimp sticks.

You can catch them, you just have to go slowly with the net. If you have shrimplets, that’s another story. They are hard to see…

[KittenFishMom]

I have seen some shrimplet when my eyeglasses are clean and the tank is clean. Not sure how many. The leeches or ramshorn snails or the bladder snails might be eating them too. These snails are not fussy. I have been removing large snails and snail eggs when I see them, but I must missed a few big clutches from the number of tiny snails I see.

[Lennie]

I hate leeches. Besides catching shrimp perspective, I hope you can find a way that actually works on leeches 😭

After watching Lav's video, I was so sad. also seems like no method worked for her other than taking the tank down. Sharing the video so maybe it helps. Idk if you have same sort of leeches or if all leeches should be treated the same way:

 

[KittenFishMom]

@Lennie I plan in taking the tank down and scrubbing with salt and vinegar, and starting with new sand. I hope that will do the trick.

[KittenFishMom]

@Lennie and @Guppysnail  I just watched the video Lennie posted above and snail leeches wiping out 8 tanks off mystery snails. I have no mystery snails in the half cylinder tank where I have leeches, but I do have them in my 55 tank, along with ramshorn, bladder and mystery snail and snail leeches just like the video.

ACK, Now what do I do? If I move the mystery snails from the tank with leeches, to a tank without leeches, I might move the leeches too. I have two 15 gallon temp tanks I set up for the cory fry. I believe they are leech free. I used new plants or plants I put through RR. everything else for the tanks was new. I use a flashlight and check those tanks every evening.

I want to round up the mystery snails in the 55 tank and put them someplace safe and see if they have leeches on/in them. I don't know where to put that tank. Oh goodness. I think I am on the edge of a big problem. The mystery snails in the 55 tank have been laying egg clutches all week. I think I have 5 mystery snail egg clutches.  

I have a 10 gallon tank with a lid. but I don't know where I can put it.

 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

How do you know they are snail leeches vs a different type of leech?

When I watched her video it sounded like those leeches killed her snail in 24 hrs. Are your leeches killing that fast?

She got hers from putting outdoor things from ponds into her aquarium.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Lennie]

I really dunno how you can get rid of leeches, or how to identify what type they are. Maybe @Biotope Biologist might help

Also I remember @Guppysnail mentioning she has harmless leeches too

[KittenFishMom]

I have looked them up. also had an ichthyologist check them out and they look just like the ones in the video Lennie posted. They even drop young it you don't grab the carefully. I just figured they were after the bladder and ramshorm and didn't bother the fish or mystery snails. I find them on the glass, top to bottom. They love hanging out in the plants and between the prefilters and the glass.  I think the neon tetras pray on the leeches, they are always looking at the substrate. 

If I shake the plants and come back in 10 minutes, there are some on the glass. I find them under the base of sponge filters and rocks. and under anything floating in the tank.

[Guppysnail]

Are you certain they are snail leeches? Are they killing your snails? Are they crawling on or in your snails. Clear closeup  Photos are helpful. There are so many small leeches that can inhabit our tanks. I have two types of harmless detritus leeches that mom n dad pleco love snuffling for in the gravel. They like a majority of leeches in our tank thrive on eating detritus, bacteria and micro algae. Ok I should say had. I moved my bandit and Pygmy Cory in and I have not seen a single one lately 😣🐷

Move your snails to a bare bottom tank and watch close for a few weeks. 

I should add leeches have very similar body tissue to snails. Anything that kills them will likely kill your snails. Manual removal is you best bet. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Guppysnail

[KittenFishMom]

This is what the icthyologisy said:

All leeches are predatory or parasitic.  I believe you have a leech in the family Glossiphoniidae-based on the size and coloration.  Although a definitive ID requires examination of the mouth and oral disc under a microscope.  They are mainly predators of invertebrates see feeding description below.

Here are the photos I sent to the ichthyologist. I can get more photos. I may have more than one type of leech.

the leech:

and the cup for scale:

[KittenFishMom]

@Guppysnail I do remove the leeches every time I see one. They came for plants I found in the lakes.

[Guppysnail]

QT the snails for a few weeks in bare bottom no plants so you can see to remove is the best way I know of. 

Use reverse respiration on all your plants and pants you wild collect in the future before introducing them to your tanks to avoid having this happen again. My teeny tiny benign leeches do not look anything like those. Those would scare me. 

[KittenFishMom]

@Guppysnail I use reverse respiration on all my plants and have once I heard about it. Those lake plants were gathers in the fall.

[Biotope Biologist]

Thats not a snail leech that looks like Erpobdella punctata. It could be other species as the ichthyologist correctly pointed out I would need to look at the eyes and teeth, as well as body segmentation. They are also one of the most commonly found leeches in our freshwater streams, lakes, and ponds. Ubiquitous in North America, probably has something to do with it.

 

I digress. I have had many of these leeches in random water and soil samples over the years. They are not blood eaters and they mostly feed on detritus, and small invertebrates such as earthworms, amphipods, midge and mosquito larvae. Interestingly they have been observed hitching a ride on animals to both relocate and scavenge their food.

 

I believe I read somewhere too that scientists might actually think Erpobdella punctata is actually 3 different leeches in a hat and trenchcoat. All that was probably too much information but this leech might be eating shrimplets and that’s about it. Physical removal is the only way, but they burrow for most of the day. 
 

Edit: if there are some dropping young you may have multiple species. Glossiphoniidae are well known for their parental care. They will attach a sac full of young to their underside and ferry them around until they can survive on their own. Fun stuff! Glossiphonia complanata look very similar.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Biotope Biologist

[KittenFishMom]

@Biotope Biologist Thank you. I just caught a very large one. I can put it on a wet paper towel and photograph it if that would be useful. Let me know. It is in the new trash bag I just saw it when I tossed others out.

[PineSong]

I don't have any advice for you, KittenfishMom, but wanted to say you're not alone in the struggle of trying to figure out how to remove all the shrimp from a tank. I have two tanks where I would like to replace the substrate, but knowing that I have to pick through the removed gravel to remove all the burrowing snails and that it feels impossible to get out every shrimp and shrimplet just feels like an ordeal, so I'm putting it off. The MTS are creepy for me as it is. Leeches might make me cry. Fingers crossed for you!

[Lennie]

On 4/12/2023 at 2:13 AM, Biotope Biologist said:

They will attach a sac full of young to their underside and ferry them around until they can survive on their own. Fun stuff! Glossiphonia complanata look very similar.

Me while reading your lines and you suddenly say fun stuff:

 

CREEPY STUFF AAAAAA 🏃🏼‍♂️🏃🏼‍♂️🏃🏼‍♂️🏃🏼‍♂️

[Biotope Biologist]

On 4/11/2023 at 4:27 PM, Lennie said:

Me while reading your lines and you suddenly say fun stuff:

 

CREEPY STUFF AAAAAA 🏃🏼‍♂️🏃🏼‍♂️🏃🏼‍♂️🏃🏼‍♂️

One of my favorite fishes of all time is the Lamprey. Especially Brooke Lamprey. Just the cutest little eyes. So I might be weird 😂

 

On 4/11/2023 at 4:26 PM, KittenFishMom said:

@Biotope Biologist Thank you. I just caught a very large one. I can put it on a wet paper towel and photograph it if that would be useful. Let me know. It is in the new trash bag I just saw it when I tossed others out.

If you wouldn’t mind!

[Lennie]

On 4/12/2023 at 2:33 AM, Biotope Biologist said:

One of my favorite fishes of all time is the Lamprey. Especially Brooke Lamprey. Just the cutest little eyes. So I might be weird 😂

And I thought I am weird because I like spiders 🤣

teeth on fish looks very creepy to me. Except puffers, they look silly. 

I can’t google lamprey again. I assume those are teeth. I’m aboutta go to bed. Blaming you if I have a nightmare!
 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Lennie

[KittenFishMom]

It is in a clear plastic dish over my striped shirt. The glare from the lights made it tricky. Want more.

 

I remember pulling lampreys off of fish as a kid. We took one home so the high schooler next door to take it to science class. Mid 60's on Cayuga Lake in NY. I remember looking at laying on it's back between my feet on the way home and my Dad saying not to damage it with my foot when I got out of the car. 

[KittenFishMom]

@Biotope Biologist Do you want something for scale?

I'm so glad you don't think the are snail leeches. I did pull one off a snail. Maybe it was just hitching a ride.

I could add a few drops of water and see if I can get it out of the curse of the dish and photo the underside.

Edited April 11, 2023 by KittenFishMom

[Biotope Biologist]

No I think that’s great! THAT looks like a snail leech. Or the family Glossiphoniidae. And makes sense with your observations of dropping young when disturbed.