Neon tetra issues: not getting better...or worse.

[PineSong]

Several weeks ago I noticed one of my neons had a large white bump on his mouth. It was about the size of the head of a pin, and did not look fluffy or cottony, just like white skin over a round ball.

Closer examination of the other neons revealed that another one had a flat, angular, white raised area on its left side. This area did not look like a ball, a tumor, a wound and did not look fluffy or cottony, but beyond that I can't say much because of how quickly the fish darts around and the area only being noticeable at certain angles.

I removed both fish to a hospital tank and treated them over the course of three weeks. I tried salt, Kanaplex, and Maracyn in turn. Nothing changed.

Both fish retained good appetite and normal behavior. 

After these treatments did not work and the fish appeared to still feel fine, I moved them to my "shrimp only" tank which also houses a handicapped guppy.  They have now been in there for two weeks and still seem fine other than having the original issues. The guppy is his usual self, no white spots or lumps/raised scales of any kind.

Pictures of the affected fish below were taken today. The top photos shows the guy with the lump on his mouth. He is thinner than the other fish, but has not gotten thinner over time. I do believe the lump impairs his food consumption some but I make sure to feed small particles and he does go after them and appear to keep them in. Second photo is the best I could get of the white area on the fish's side. It is not that white speck, it's the grayish area in front of the white speck. The speck is a trick of the light or something, not there in real life.

Here is my question: at what point (if any) do I conclude that whatever is going on with these fish, it is not contagious, and put them back in the 20 long? 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Neon Tetra Disease?? @Colu?

[Colu]

On 4/1/2023 at 12:14 AM, Colu said:

 Looks like neon tetra disease Theirs currently no treatment available for Neon tetra disease if there active and eating I would just leave them they will gradually get to the point you might have to consider euthanizing I would just keep them in quarantine and not mix them with other fish it spreads when a fish dies and is eaten that cause the other fish to become infected with to many  pleistophora for their immune system to handle so they develop neon tetra disease he's some pictures of fish with Neon Tetra disease for comparison @OBXfishkeeper

It can also infects danios barbs Rasboras cardinals rummy nose tetras angelfish and guppies so I would quarantine any fish showing symptoms on their own  

[PineSong]

Thank you @Colu. I wondered if that could be it, but also wondered how long they would live without getting worse if it was neon tetra disease. 
 

Question: Since they have been living with the guppy for two weeks, should I just leave him in there, because it’s already too late to save him from exposure, or should I remove him?

My only other option for the guppy is the 20g long that the tetras used to be in. And the handicapped guppy used to live in there, too. The Tetras were in there for 8 or 9 months before this problem cropped up.

thank you for any advice

[Colu]

I would leave your guppy were it is they are more than likely other infected fish in the main tank so it will be exposed to the disease whether he's in this tank or the main tank it can take 2 weeks to a couple of months from the on set of symptoms for neon tetras disease to kill your fish  they will develop cysts in the muscle  tissue loss of colour have problems swimming in the advanced stages they can develop a curved spine and get secondary infections @PineSong

Edited April 22, 2023 by Colu

[PineSong]

Thank you, @Colu for that response.  I will declare the tank they originated in a dead end tank--no fish leaving the tank and no new fish going in the tank, since I do not want to risk spreading the disease. 

Should I assume that all the fish in that tank will eventually catch it and die? The tank has many male guppies, 3 platies, one molly and the school of neons.

[Colu]

On 4/9/2023 at 5:04 PM, PineSong said:

Thank you, @Colu for that response.  I will declare the tank they originated in a dead end tank--no fish leaving the tank and no new fish going in the tank, since I do not want to risk spreading the disease. 

Should I assume that all the fish in that tank will eventually catch it and die? The tank has many male guppies, 3 platies, one molly and the school of neons.

The best way to prevent the disease from spreading is by removing any fish showing symptoms as it's spread by fish eating the body of infected fish so it doesn't die in the tank I would just let them live out there life in this tank and remove any showing symptoms @PineSong

[PineSong]

On 4/9/2023 at 6:11 PM, Colu said:

The best way to prevent the disease from spreading is by removing any fish showing symptoms as it's spread by fish eating the body of infected fish so it doesn't die in the tank I would just let them live out there life in this tank and remove any showing symptoms @PineSong

Colu, I am planning to do just as you suggest. The two affected neons and the guppy they share the 10g with are all still alive and will remain in the tank until they pass away. My question is this: is it safe to remove shrimp and snails from that tank and put them in my other tanks, or do I need to consider all of the shrimp and snails contaminated as well?

[Colu]

On 4/22/2023 at 12:42 AM, PineSong said:

Colu, I am planning to do just as you suggest. The two affected neons and the guppy they share the 10g with are all still alive and will remain in the tank until they pass away. My question is this: is it safe to remove shrimp and snails from that tank and put them in my other tanks, or do I need to consider all of the shrimp and snails contaminated as well?

There's always a risk of cross contamination i can't find any information on  shrimp or snails spreading neon tetra disease I would always air on the side of caution 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Colu

[PineSong]

Okay, thank you. This is a disaster I want to contain.

I'm going to do a census of the fish in the main tank so I can keep my eyes on the numbers. Many of the fish are identical to my eye so doing a headcount will be the only way I can be sure if any have passed away in there unless I actually see a body.

[PineSong]

Just an update that now, several weeks after I first noticed the white lump on my neon's mouth (which I now know is called a snout chondroma), it has actually reduced in size. I guess it is like a pimple or cyst that has burst--I can still see that it once was there, but it's not a large white knob anymore. The fish still has a good appetite. Sadly, several other neons are now showing the same symptoms. 

[PineSong]

One month later... all the tetras are still alive in their "hospice" tank. A few of them have snout chondromas, one or two have white bumps on the left side of their torso, and only one fish looks noticeably thin. So far, they all behave normally; I don't see any flashing or lethargy and everyone has a good appetite.

I tried to get video but it seems pretty blurry so I am not sure you can see the chondromas:

 

[PineSong]

Well, here we are at nearly the end of July so it's been nearly 7 months of neon tetra disease. All of my tetras are still alive, even though several look actively impacted by the disease (body lumps and chondromas, thin) and one or two have snout chondromas that make it so they can't close their mouths 😞  I keep telling myself I will euthanize if/when they stop eating but so far, everyone pounces on food and is behaving normally.

I definitely did not expect that these guys would all still be hanging in there. 

[PineSong]

Six months later, it's now January and I've lost 3 or 4 neons. Currently, there is one with visible white lumps and a ragged caudal fin, the others look okay visually but I can tell from how they are tilted in the water a bit that they aren't 100%. The two guppies in the tank are doing well. When I set up this hospice tank I did not think it would still be here a year later.