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Hillstream loach and pea puffers - Yay or Nay?


St_Marcus
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First of all, I hope this is the right place for this question.

Hi,

So, I've got these two pea puffers in a plastic container (it's part of a larger experimental setup, that's why it's a plastic container). I got them so they can process my excess snails, which do alright. And also because they're just the most adorable, personable little fish I know.

Now, since the puffers eat the snails, I've got nothing to eat the green muck from the glass (actually the plastic). It's this really delicious tender green muck that I know snails would go crazy for. So, I was thinking to myself: "what about a hillstream loach"? They're high on my list of fish I want to try someday, and I bet they would make short work of the green muck. The only thing I wonder, is whether it would get along with the puffers. I think it should be alright. Right?

I do have more plastic containers, which house the rice fish I bred last summer. So, I do have backup "tanks". But, those tanks have plenty of snails and therefore no muck. So, placing the loach in one of those containers, kind of defeats the purpose of getting one in the first place.

What are your ideas about housing a hillstream loach with pea puffers? Yay or nay?

 

(I am also open to other ideas.
Also, I've added two pictures. The first is of the green muck (lower half of the container) and the second is to show off more puffer.)

PufferBin_01.jpg

PufferBin_02.jpg

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Welcome to the forum!

I have borneo sucker, so pretty much the same with a hillstream loach. They are very cool, however, if you get them to eat algae purposes, I think you would be disappointed.

I think they don't do well at eating algae by any means. My friend @beastie also has a group of them in her high flow river type of tank, and she also mentioned even as a group they barely make any difference on algae, even combined with a group of panda garras.

So yea, even if you decide to get a hillsteam loach, I would not have high hopes for algae eating behavior. In my experience, they enjoy diatoms and biofilm rather than normal algae. Oh and fish food and frozen food ofc.

 

For hillstream loach specific, they like high flow cooler tanks with lots of oxygen content. That container looks small even for one imo. I have my borneo sucker in my 160L tank, it is smaller than a regular hillstream loach, and she is everywhere in the tank constantly moving. You cannot meet their high flow needs with pea puffers, otherwise pea puffers would really struggle to swim I bet. Personal opinion, Considering they are pretty active once settles in my experience, and love grazing areas, to make sure it has enough grazing surfaces constantly for biofilm, I would not keep one in smaller than a 20g.

Because biofilm is their main source of food, if I'm not wrong

Edited by Lennie
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Hi Lennie,

Thank you for your feedback!

I did not even consider tank size. I hadn't imagined that such a small and passive looking fish would need a 20 gallon. Maybe they get bigger than I thought they would? The container is a small 10 gallon. I still secretly believe could have made it work with a lot of plants and aeration, but your argument on temperature closes the case. I do think however that the green muck I'm describing is large part tasty bio-stuff that is not solely algae.

I very shortly considered removing the mesh from the tubes that connect the containers, so the loach could use them to transport himself between tanks. But I quickly let go of that idea, as I don't want the puffers to transport themselves between tanks.

If there exists a compact green-muck-loving animal that can live with two pea puffers, I'm open to ideas. I guess I could always try tossing in some big Neocaridina, provide some hiding spaces, and see if they get to keep their appendages.

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Our friend @Odd Duck here calls pea puffers "murder beans" and I think that's probably an appropriate nickname- when they'll even murder each other. If there was any situation another fish could safely live with them, I'd go on odd duck's recommendation but from what I've seen I'd probably only house them by themselves and just keep replenishing bladder snails who will eat some of this algae you speak of before the murder beans find them!

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Haha, I've read that pea puffers are known for murdering everything that shares a tank with them. However, I've owned another pair of pea puffers before, with which I had thrown in some Neocaridina culls and.. the large ones were just fine. I accidentality murdered the puffers at some point, but those shrimp are still alive in that old tank.  So, I guess it also depends on the individuals and the setup.

If I don't come up with anything else, and Old Duck doesn't have any ideas, then I will definitely try the shrimp as clean up crew. I bet they would work that muck at least a little bit. Like have said, I believe it's the best and tastiest muck there is. It's only still there because there's nothing in the tank to devour it.

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I read that the smallest of the puffers can be kept with large nerites, as they know they cant eat them. Might still stress the snail out though, but nerites are the best algae eaters. No fish will eat your algae, especially if you feed the puffers well with bloodworms

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Temperatures and flow preferences would not tend to make good tank mates between pea puffers and hillstream loaches.  Could they survive?  Maybe, but would they prosper?  That’s very debatable.  Hillstreams don’t have to have high flow rates but they do prefer it mostly because of the higher oxygen levels in the tank that tend to go along with higher flow rates.  Do pea puffers suffer from higher flow rates?  Maybe, if they don’t have quieter areas to rest and hunt - hunting is their main goal in life, when they aren’t hunting they’re generally hiding.

Hillstreams will tolerate 65-80’F but prefer 70-75’F range.  Pea puffers are 74-82’F range and prefer the middle of that zone at 76-80’F.  Pea puffers are little stinkers and there’s little doubt in my mind that they might pester hillstreams, potentially to death.  They have certainly pestered even large mystery and some nerite snails to death.  I’ve had marbled limpets (a type of nerite that stays fully under their shell) do well with them for many months, but they occasionally fall off the glass onto their backs and then they very soon are goners unless you see it happen and immediately turn them over.  In other tanks with no pea puffers they potentially have hours and hours to get turned over by the aquarist once home from work or getting up in the morning (ask me how I know).

I wish I had a good, reliable suggestion for algae eaters in a pea puffer tank, especially since they’re such messy eaters.  I’ve had Amano snails survive in pea puffer tanks but the puffers don’t let them do as good a job as they are capable of doing without the murder beans present.  Dwarf shrimp have been known to do OK in some pea puffer tanks but not others.  They won’t be a self-sustaining population reliably, even with excellent moss growth and lots of cover.  I’ve been feeding bladder and ramshorn snails, scuds, Daphnia and Ceriodaphnia to my current pea puffer tank which is practically choked with plants and susswassertang.  I’ve been hoping that the scuds and/or the Ceriodaphnia might be able to establish a population.  I even have little scud/Ceriodaphnia “refugiums” in the tank to help, but so far, despite squirting the Ceriodaphnia directly into the Suss and refugiums, there’s no sign of a persistent population.

If you find something that’s promising, by all means post it up.  I haven’t had much luck so far in 5 different tanks with varying numbers of messy eater, murder beans.  I’ve had a 10 G, a 6 G cube with an exceptionally asocial singleton male, a 20 long, a 29 G, and now the last couple back in a 10 G but the most heavily planted tank yet.  I’m still looking for the perfect solution.

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I’m going to throw this out here because you have an unusual situation plus I’m just curious if it would work. Keep in mind I have not kept puffers or triops. 
When I was doing my live food thread I bought Triops eggs thinking they were much smaller than they actually were. 
 

im sure very young they would be puffer food but maybe if you add a handful of adults it would work. Also coming in eggs form if they did become food they could be replenished. 50A26CF5-D6B4-45EE-8900-BE4032EC5377.png.bf015c17b964e9b911820eec7ea087b4.png

82157543-E222-43BC-8041-DE913B58443B.png

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Thank you all for your insights.

I have definitely let go off the idea of housing a hillstream loach with my puffers.

I will consider the suggestions of trying a nerite snail or even triops. For now I am building a small hideout for Neocaridina. If they live, they probably stillwon't even dent the green muck, but they might help clean up after the peapuffers.

Thanks all!

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