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Suggestion - Newbie 20H Stocking Thoughts?


g0nk
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Greetings! This is my first real post here, but I wanted to ask for advice on stocking ideas! I have a 20H tank and this will be my first planted tank. I just placed an order for a crapton of plants from Co-Op, and I'll get those all planted and will season the tank before getting any actual fish put in. One step at a time of course! But, I was curious as to what you all think of my idea for what I'd like to stock once I am ready to populate the tank. Also, any suggestions on online shops for live fish (Aqua huna I know of, any others?) I only have chain stores around me and after a quick trip around town to take a look, I wouldn't buy anything from any of them.. Such a poor display around me. Anyway...

Here's what I am "thinking" of how I would like to stock the tank once ready:

Feature Fish: Either 2-3 Guppies, or a Betta. Not sure which.. Leaning towards Guppies though.

Cleanup Crew: Either 6 Panda or Pigmy Corydoras or 6 Kuhli Loaches, with a batch of about 10 cherry shrimp and some snails? (I really like rabbit snails)

Maybe a small school of about 10 neon tetras?

I am unsure about numbers, so that's why I am asking for advice. The tank will be heavily planted, heated to about 78-80, and using a medium Co-Op sponge filer, with a Co-Op 24" Easy Plant Light. Hardscape I have going in, is a few pieces of driftwood, some Fluval Aquasoil, and tiny pea gravel, and Dragonstone. Plants I have coming from Co-Op are: Amazon Sword for background plants, Anubias petite and Tropica Crypts for mid plants, and dwarf high grass for foreground carpet. No CO2 injection yet, but have Easy Green on the way too.

Thank you all so much for reading though all this! :)

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On 3/28/2023 at 7:56 AM, g0nk said:

Also, any suggestions on online shops for live fish (Aqua huna I know of, any others?)

I've ordered from and had a good experience with Imperial Tropicals, Aquatic Arts and Aqua Imports.

On 3/28/2023 at 7:56 AM, g0nk said:

Here's what I am "thinking" of how I would like to stock the tank once ready:

Feature Fish: Either 2-3 Guppies, or a Betta. Not sure which.. Leaning towards Guppies though.

Cleanup Crew: Either 6 Panda or Pigmy Corydoras or 6 Kuhli Loaches, with a batch of about 10 cherry shrimp and some snails? (I really like rabbit snails)

Maybe a small school of about 10 neon tetras?

I think your list looks good! For determining numbers, https://aqadvisor.com/ is a pretty helpful calculator for getting a decent ballpark. The only suggestion I have is to maybe consider a slightly smaller schooling fish like green neon tetras, ember tetras or chili rasbora. If you use a smaller fish, you can keep a larger school and I think tiny fish look better in smaller tanks because they have more room to swim around relative to their size. There's nothing wrong with neon tetras though, if you prefer them.

 

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Hello,

Here are my thoughts.

  • Three guppies would be good for feature fish, as long as you get all males.  If you get even one female you will soon find yourself overrun with fry.
  • I don't know what you mean by "Cleanup Crew", or what you expect them to clean up, but only get them if you like them, not because you expect them (or any other tank inhabitants) to do any "cleaning".  Contrary to what some people think, just because corys rummage around at the bottom of the tank doesn't mean they eat fish poop, and they also don't eat algae.  The only cleaning they do is to eat food that falls past the other fish.  They will starve if they don't get enough food, and not algae wafers.  While they might nibble on them, they need primarily protein.
  • A school of one of the smaller tetras, rasboras, etc, is a good idea for the middle of the tank.  As @Ninjoma said, smaller fish allows you to have more of them.
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I personally don't have a lot of luck with guppies, but if you ended up with a Betta, be careful with shrimp, some are ok with it, but mine (female) is a murderer, but does ok with nerites and ramshorns...

For enjoyment purposes, I would suggest panda cories over pygmy...I have pygmies and they hide most of the time, but my paleatus (in a different tank) are out all the time and I love watching them

I would start with aqadvisor like @Ninjoma suggested, it will give you a good idea of where you can start...I find that it gives a decent baseline for your tank, its not an exact science, but it will give you an idea of where you can start - ex: if you did 3 guppies, 10 neons, and 6 pandas, it comes out with you having 71% filtration capacity and 92% stocking level...so take that with a grain of salt and go from there 🙂

I look forward to finding out what you get!

I've never ordered online, but I have heard of Flip Aquatics that has a lot of nano fish as well as shrimp, and I think snails too...happy hunting!

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On 3/28/2023 at 7:56 AM, g0nk said:

Cleanup Crew: Either 6 Panda or Pigmy Corydoras or 6 Kuhli Loaches, with a batch of about 10 cherry shrimp and some snails? (I really like rabbit snails)

THE ABOVE NEEDS TO BE ADDED LAST- and preferably when the tank is WELL established. You go through cycling, you've had your other fish added and they are established in the tank for at least a month with no cycle issues or deaths. Bottom feeders require a tank that's been in operation a bit for best results. Shrimp are especially suseptible to this and part of it is also because they'll need food sources that come with a well-esstablished tank. Clean up crews need to be fed just like the rest of your fish (do your research!) :-) 

For your centerpiece fish I would also consider a small group of male Endlers. They seem to be much hardier than Guppies IMO and are just as interesting/active/fun to watch. 

I would also consider smaller schooling fish (lower bioload) Ember Tetras or Kubotai Rasboras. :-) 

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Welcome! 20 gallons is a great tank size to work with and you can have lots of fun with planting and stocking. 

I have a couple of 20s and I really love the male guppies and male endlers both, but they don't provide the same look. My male endlers are small and fast like sports cars, always always showing off for each other, while the male guppies with long flashy tails are more drama and less action. I don't think you can go wrong with either unless you have a female and overpopulate your tank in no time (ask me how I know!). 

Guppies bought from stores tend to be iffy on survival for me, but those I have purchased from local aquarium club sales and from Aquabid sellers have been healthy and great. I sell male guppies and endlers in my area via craigslist and Facebook aquarium groups, so if anyone in your area does that, it's possible to get healthy fish without paying shipping. You can search for local groups on Facebook by putting in search terms like Indianapolis Freshwater Aquarium or Indiana Freshwater Breeders, etc.

re: cleanup crew, I'll second what others have said--only get those fish if you like them for themselves. In a tank with guppies/endlers, there just isn't a lot to clean up--they eat everything. I do have otocinclus catfish in one of my 20s and I'll never get them again. They hide almost all the time and I have to take care to feed them special food and make sure they can actually get some of it--it's nerve-wracking without a lot of reward.  

Whatever you decide, I hope you'll have great fun getting into your new fish!

 

 

 

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On 3/28/2023 at 11:38 AM, Ninjoma said:

I've ordered from and had a good experience with Imperial Tropicals, Aquatic Arts and Aqua Imports.

I think your list looks good! For determining numbers, https://aqadvisor.com/ is a pretty helpful calculator for getting a decent ballpark. The only suggestion I have is to maybe consider a slightly smaller schooling fish like green neon tetras, ember tetras or chili rasbora. If you use a smaller fish, you can keep a larger school and I think tiny fish look better in smaller tanks because they have more room to swim around relative to their size. There's nothing wrong with neon tetras though, if you prefer them.

 

Thank you so much! aqadvisor is pretty cool! And thanks for the online shops. I've briefly looked through them and now can't decide! HA!  :)

On 3/28/2023 at 4:11 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

THE ABOVE NEEDS TO BE ADDED LAST- and preferably when the tank is WELL established. You go through cycling, you've had your other fish added and they are established in the tank for at least a month with no cycle issues or deaths. Bottom feeders require a tank that's been in operation a bit for best results. Shrimp are especially suseptible to this and part of it is also because they'll need food sources that come with a well-esstablished tank. Clean up crews need to be fed just like the rest of your fish (do your research!) :-) 

For your centerpiece fish I would also consider a small group of male Endlers. They seem to be much hardier than Guppies IMO and are just as interesting/active/fun to watch. 

I would also consider smaller schooling fish (lower bioload) Ember Tetras or Kubotai Rasboras. :-) 

Wow, I actually never thought of this. Most videos always suggest getting a "clean-up crew" so I just assumed that should be part of the beginning of the tank. Waiting until it's established like you say makes total sense! Thank you!! I'll begin with Feature fish and a small school I think. If "clean-up" is needed, I'll stock accordingly. :)

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I defintely like the idea of cories, but make sure they get food for them and not relying on scraps or cleanup.  

Kuhli loaches are an okay fish, but they do make themselves scarce. Great at hiding.

Livebearers are fun, but constant spawns can make the population explode. (I have a pair of Apistogramma C. that keep the newborn population in check.

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Hey there,

Welcome to the forum.

On 3/28/2023 at 5:56 PM, g0nk said:

Feature Fish: Either 2-3 Guppies, or a Betta. Not sure which.. Leaning towards Guppies though.

As some peeps mentioned above, I would be cautious about guppys. They breed A LOT. I know many people started with guppys and got frustrated. Please don't take this as a demotivation. But breeding is an issue with livebearers and you cannot really control it, until you go with only males.

 

Betta's suitability in a community tank depends on the betta itself. One can be super peaceful, another one may be very agressive. If you won't have a back up plan, I would skip this one as well.

 

What do you think of honey gouramis? They are very peaceful. You may have one male honey gourami maybe? Or 3 male guppies.

 

On 3/28/2023 at 5:56 PM, g0nk said:

Cleanup Crew: Either 6 Panda or Pigmy Corydoras or 6 Kuhli Loaches, with a batch of about 10 cherry shrimp and some snails? (I really like rabbit snails)

Maybe a small school of about 10 neon tetras?

I would go with a more lazy group of schoolers instead of active swimmers as your tank is tall. I personally think ember tetras is a good example for that one. They have a nice color and not super active.

Pygmy cories are doable. They may help to clean up the extra uneaten food particles, but bottom dwellers need specific feeding too, don't forget.

I keep rabbit snails as well. Rabbit snails need some sort of requirements. Warm temperature around 26-27C, soft sand substrate to burry, calcium content in the water and a ph over 7.2 or so. They also need a specific diet, you need to feed them blanched organic veggies, and prepare snellos. If you need further info and interested in keeping them, please don't hesitate to ask anything. Would love to help.

Here is one of mine 🙂

 

image.jpeg.9230df13280ca02be9a300638d742cf4.jpeg

 

Btw, in my own very personal experience, no matter how much plant cover you have, if you don't have a big established shrimp colony going on, it does not work in a community tank well. As long as a shrimp fit into a fish's mouth, it is a food.

 

If I were you, I would consider some algae eaters. Maybe 2-3 nerite snails, 3 borneo suckers, etc.

 

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On 3/28/2023 at 3:11 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

THE ABOVE NEEDS TO BE ADDED LAST- and preferably when the tank is WELL established. You go through cycling, you've had your other fish added and they are established in the tank for at least a month with no cycle issues or deaths. Bottom feeders require a tank that's been in operation a bit for best results. Shrimp are especially suseptible to this and part of it is also because they'll need food sources that come with a well-esstablished tank. Clean up crews need to be fed just like the rest of your fish (do your research!) 🙂

For your centerpiece fish I would also consider a small group of male Endlers. They seem to be much hardier than Guppies IMO and are just as interesting/active/fun to watch. 

I would also consider smaller schooling fish (lower bioload) Ember Tetras or Kubotai Rasboras. 🙂

I agree with everything he said. I have Panda Cories that are doing wonderful now but I originally bought 8 when I set up my tank and only 2 survived the first month. Those 2 are still going strong with 6 new friends 2 years later though.

I also think the Endlers are a good centerpiece fish and they love to display for one another. They love to compete. Even if there are no females in the tank, they will compete for the love of the game. lol

Another potential plus is that they are smaller than Guppies so you could potentially do the Endlers AND a Betta. Just make sure you check Aquadvisor to make sure your stocking fits your tank.

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@Lennie I have a Betta and 5 male Endlers in my Fluval Flex9 (along with 1x Nerite and 1x Hillstream) and they get along swimmingly. Pun intended. 

The only downside to Betta in community tanks is temperature and aggression (either from Betta or other fish to the Betta). Betta in order to thrive should be kept in higher temps, which can be incompatible with species like Corycats for example. This is a HUGE consideration when wanting a Betta as the centerpiece. And always add a Betta last to a community to cut down on territorial behavior. 

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On 3/29/2023 at 9:25 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

@Lennie I have a Betta and 5 male Endlers in my Fluval Flex9 (along with 1x Nerite and 1x Hillstream) and they get along swimmingly. Pun intended. 

The only downside to Betta in community tanks is temperature and aggression (either from Betta or other fish to the Betta). Betta in order to thrive should be kept in higher temps, which can be incompatible with species like Corycats for example. This is a HUGE consideration when wanting a Betta as the centerpiece. And always add a Betta last to a community to cut down on territorial behavior. 

Yeah, their temperament changes a lot. I love bettas, such grumpy puppys! I would love to have one in my community tanks but I hear a lot of different stories. Sharing as much as experience we can helps to see any potential scenarios I believe, as experiences are just very unique in general. And far from stating any facts

It is just I'm not sure if it is a good idea to deal with potential agression of a betta especially  without a backup plan/tank when someone is newbie in the hobby. 

But I see your point! And I definitely agree 🙂 

I would not keep betta with shrimp by any means personally tho. I have friends who have literally seen bettas actively hunting adults. Not worth risking and having a sad experience to me.

Edited by Lennie
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@Lennie that's the hard part about talking about personal experience with Betta in community tanks. Some work and some don't. They are literally each VERY different fish. Some work well with other fish, some absolutely don't, some are just questionable. But you are correct. If you really want a tank with a BETTA as a centerpiece fish you HAVE TO have a back up plan. Either confirm with whoever you're getting it from you can return/exchange (and this isn't always something you can do or even want to if you get attached) OR have a 5 gallon tank on standby for that fish to move into and go with plan B (no betta in the community tank). 

And I agree with the shrimp. To me the point of a community tank is that, a community- everyone is peaceful and gets along. 

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On 3/29/2023 at 9:50 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

@Lennie that's the hard part about talking about personal experience with Betta in community tanks. Some work and some don't. They are literally each VERY different fish. Some work well with other fish, some absolutely don't, some are just questionable. But you are correct. If you really want a tank with a BETTA as a centerpiece fish you HAVE TO have a back up plan. Either confirm with whoever you're getting it from you can return/exchange (and this isn't always something you can do or even want to if you get attached) OR have a 5 gallon tank on standby for that fish to move into and go with plan B (no betta in the community tank). 

Agreed! With a backup plan, can be tried. Without one, such a hard commitment to make for everything in the tank and may lead frustration. Might be very demotivating.

 

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On 3/28/2023 at 10:40 AM, JettsPapa said:

Three guppies would be good for feature fish, as long as you get all males.  If you get even one female you will soon find yourself overrun with fry.

3 males do not work together. It will cause too much aggression. 2 of them will gang up on 1 until it dies. For all male gully groups to work, you need 6 or more to spread out the aggression. 

On 3/28/2023 at 3:11 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

THE ABOVE NEEDS TO BE ADDED LAST-

Usually I would agree except for in the case of adding a betta the betta absolutely needs to be last. 

On 3/29/2023 at 1:21 PM, Lennie said:

@Cinnebuns can you please share your betta community tank and guppy-betta experiences here as well. Maybe it helps

Sure!

I will start this by saying there are people who make it work, but I NEVER recommend a male betta with guppies. I have seen it go wrong more often than I've seen it work with people. I have had to rescue dozens of guppies after the male betta they were with for months attacked them all over night. 

Now, that said, I do have a female betta in with my mutt guppy tank. Again though, I don't recommend it for beginners. A betta with guppies is a tough line to manage. They need to be aggressive enough to eat the fry, but peaceful enough to not mess with the adults. Not all individuals are up for that. I did some testing of her temperament in the store but there is only so much of that you can do. 

Here. Meet Rah and her guppies:

 

 

I do have another betta named Storm who is a male. I have not yet put storm in a community tank but I do believe he's community friendly. This time I not only tested him in the store but for weeks at home. He is a male. For now he's alone. 

20230322_180832.jpg.8821ab22870ec7daf7c93eca0d194190.jpg

 

I want to 2nd what someone else suggested. My original plans for fry control in my guppy tank was a gourami. Gouramis are a much better option for this. They are more peaceful, to varying degrees. You are much less likely to have issues with a gourami than with a betta. I have had tons of different smaller gourami and they are all excellent choices. Honey or thicklipped (often labeled red honey) are 2 options that would be the most peaceful. Dwarf is a beautiful option but can have a little more aggression. They also tend to be pretty unhealthy. 

My thick lipped gourami in my 29:

20230329_135034.jpg.0033d5d26c452d6bca996ce5ed712f48.jpg

 

My honey gourami in my 15

20230315_141842.jpg.91a64774ea46c91afe6e69bad7e4d87f.jpg

20230314_163924.jpg.67449822c713ba2673acf196eab0bd06.jpg

 

A powdered blue Dwarf gourami i had in the past that died of dwarf gourami disease. 

20220805_183447.jpg.54c6f752b7726cfadfe70db26d8cd332.jpg

 

 

 

On 3/29/2023 at 1:50 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

that's the hard part about talking about personal experience with Betta in community tanks. Some work and some don't. They are literally each VERY different fish.

100% agree!!  That's why I like to give caution and even reserve caution in my own tank that things can change. 

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If we are suggesting Gouramis, my personal favorite is the Pearl Gourami.  I don't know how they do alone but I used to have a pair in a 29G and they did great. I currently have 3 (1M and 2F) in my 75G and they are majestic.  The Males have a bright orange chest and lots of shimmering scales on their sides. The females are bit more drab but they are just as elegant.spacer.png

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