Pepere Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 I read this in an article about the definition of life and found it intriguing… ”Zimmer then turns to the Amazon molly fish, an interbred fish produced as a hybrid that requires a male from another species to start the process of producing a Amazon molly, which is always female because during the process, all the genes of the male are destroyed. The resulting fish is a clone of itself, Zimmer says. Biologists term these fish sexual parasites, not that unlike how a virus operates. ” https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a43350753/what-is-the-definition-of-life/ I thought others might find it interesting 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miska Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Whoa. Absolutely very interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenman Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 I hadn't heard of them before now. Pretty interesting fish though. Every fry is a clone of the mother, so no hybridizing is possible. I wonder why they need to mate at all? Since they don't use sperm, why need a male at all? A hormone trigger of some sort? They'll mate with a number of different species to trigger spawning but it seems unnecessary since the male has no impact on the fry. Could be an interesting fish to experiment with to try and determine what exactly triggers the spawning. Is it the physical penetration? A hormone associated with the sperm? The sperm themselves in some manner? A hormone in the water from spawning males? From an evolutionary standpoint, cloning a stable, healthy, long lived female endlessly makes sense. The genetic stability would ensure survival. There's no risk of bad genes getting in the line since there are no new genes introduced. She wouldn't necessarily be as adaptable to environmental changes, but in a stable environment she could dominate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biotope Biologist Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 On 3/18/2023 at 5:27 AM, gardenman said: I hadn't heard of them before now. Pretty interesting fish though. Every fry is a clone of the mother, so no hybridizing is possible. I wonder why they need to mate at all? Since they don't use sperm, why need a male at all? A hormone trigger of some sort? Yes they still need the sperm to trigger the egg. The genetic makeup of the sperm is then destroyed. Its always interesting when these weird interactions pop up. According to Texas A&M the males of the other species know they are mating with the Amazons. And you would think after awhile the males would get wise that their offspring isn’t being delivered. But it turns out mating with an Amazon means better success with females of the conspecifics. It is also a good place to do genetic research because it is becoming a more popular hypothesis that animals possess some power over gene expression. If this is the case the Amazon mollies only need a large robust genetic pool to pull from. In case the environment changes and certain genes become deleterious to express. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepere Posted March 18 Author Share Posted March 18 On 3/18/2023 at 12:50 PM, Biotope Biologist said: According to Texas A&M the males of the other species know they are mating with the Amazons. And you would think after awhile the males would get wise that their offspring isn’t being delivered. Or, maybe the males are just satisfying a mating urge and dont care whether the offspring are genetically theirs… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biotope Biologist Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 On 3/18/2023 at 11:21 AM, Pepere said: Or, maybe the males are just satisfying a mating urge and dont care whether the offspring are genetically theirs… It’s important when talking about another species we don’t imprint our own desires onto what an animal might ultimately want from an exchange. True humans enjoy reproductive activities without the promise of offspring. Indeed many mammals do. But fish do it for different reasons and don’t appear to gain any pleasure from sexual reproduction. Even though livebearers do not take care of their offspring they would stop doing something if nothing is gained from the transaction. But the Texas A&M researchers discovered males that attempt to reproduce with Amazons do get something from the exchange. Higher desirability from females of their species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepere Posted March 18 Author Share Posted March 18 Well given that many fish dont provide any care after the eggs are deposited and or fertilized, and indeed may well turn around to consume the eggs or fry, I have a hard time seeing that the fish might be terribly concerned if his genetics are passed on.. just responding to a biological urge does not imply pursuing recreational activity either… I cant imagine many fish are sending 23 and Me samples out on the offspring either…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theplatymaster Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 ive read about them in a fish book once. Apparently the fry and clones, but the females will go to males of other species, then the males breeding, will stimulate the production of fry in the female, but no genetic material comes from the male. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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