Several fish spitting out food after ammonia spike

[FishGuy919]

Had an ammonia spike last week due to medication use. I changed the water for several days to decrease the ammonia, used prime, and borrowed someone else's sponge filter. Today, ammonia is at 0 PPM with no water changes. One problem is a two of my fish seem to not be able to swallow their food. They put the food in their mouth for a second or two and then spit it out then suck it back in and spit it out. This is not normal behavior for them. One is a leopard ctenopoma which can usually easily swallow things whole. Other than that they seem to be acting normal. I am wondering if the ammonia spike did some type of damage. LMK if you have any suggestions. Thx!

[Colu]

How long have you had the fish have you added anything new to the tank recently what medication and type of disease were you treating @FishGuy919

[FishGuy919]

Hey Colu, No new additions to the tank. The 2 impacted fish are a leopard ctenopoma and a spotted Congo puffer. I have had the leopard for 8 years, the puffer for a few months. As far as medications, my leopard ctenopoma had some white splotches on his head (not ich) and along the lateral line. He was eating fine.  I went ahead and tried the medication trio and treated the whole tank. I used Paracleanse, EM erythromycin (API), and ICH-X all at the same time following the instructions. The white spots on his head and along the lateral line improved but after the treatment I had an ammonia spike which likely caused by the medications killing my bacteria. After the ammonia spike, I stopped feeding the fish and borrowed someone else's sponge filter. After about 6 days I was able to get the ammonia under control and have been feeding my fish daily with no new ammonia spikes. The white splotches are back on the leopard ctenopoma now. Also, the leopard doesnt appear to be able to swallow his food. He spits it out and sucks it back in several times which is abnormal for him. He seems to be struggling to swallow food. The puffer appears to be healthy but its appetite appears to be suppressed. When it does try to eat is spits out the food and sucks it back in several times which is also abnormal for him. 

Edited March 16, 2023 by FishGuy919

[Colu]

Spitting out food can be a sign of wasting disease it causes throat irritation causing them to spit food out can you post a picture of the white patches and did you deworm your puffer before putting it in the leopard bush fish as puffer usually have a high parasites load @FishGuy919

[FishGuy919]

On 3/16/2023 at 5:07 PM, Colu said:

Spitting out food can be a sign of wasting disease it causes throat irritation causing them to spit food out can you post a picture of the white patches and did you deworm your puffer before putting it in the leopard bush fish as puffer usually have a high parasites load @FishGuy919

@Colu I will take a video of them tomorrow so you can see the patches on the leopard and also see them trying to eat. 

I didnt deworm the puffer. I purchased it from a pretty reputable place but not sure if they deworm. https://dansfish.com/store 

[Colu]

On 3/16/2023 at 9:44 PM, FishGuy919 said:

@Colu I will take a video of them tomorrow so you can see the patches on the leopard and also see them trying to eat. 

I didnt deworm the puffer. I purchased it from a pretty reputable place but not sure if they deworm. https://dansfish.com/store 

From the videos I have seen of Dan's fish they do deworm their puffer as puffers eat snail depending of the source of the snails your feeding that can be another vector for parasites 

Edited March 16, 2023 by Colu

[FishGuy919]

On 3/16/2023 at 6:33 PM, Colu said:

From the videos I have seen of Dan's fish they do deworm their puffer as puffers eat snail depending of the source of the snails your feeding that can another vector for parasites 

Okay, i did put some pest snails from someone else's tank in my tank to feed my puffer. 

[Colu]

On 3/16/2023 at 10:41 PM, FishGuy919 said:

Okay, i did put some pest snails from someone else's tank in my tank to feed my puffer. 

If the snails have come from tank were their an active parasitic infection  they can  passively transport the infectious stage of the parasite in the water in their shell 

[FishGuy919]

I used paracleanse per the instructions. Wouldn't have that cleared up the parasites? 

[Colu]

For wasting disease you want to treat with levamisole that the active ingredient in Expel p paracleanse treat's different types of parasites to Expel p @FishGuy919

[FishGuy919]

@Colu

Video of the Leopard struggling to eat fish flakes.

 

My puffer isnt eating so I put in a snail trying to see if he would eat. I also show the leopards white spots at the end. 

 

Edited March 17, 2023 by FishGuy919

[FishGuy919]

@Colu pic of the puffer's poop this AM.

 

[Colu]

On 3/18/2023 at 12:43 PM, FishGuy919 said:

@Colu pic of the puffer's poop this AM.

 

I think at this point it would be worthwhile treating with Expel p once a week for 4 weeks  the white patches looks like possible hole in the head disease the most effective treatment is   metroplex in food feeding a small amount twice a day for upto 21 days as their spitting food out what I would do is day 1 Expel p day two water change then do a full course of  metroplex week two repeat the Expel p water change then another full course of metroplex week 3 Expel p week 4 Expel p levamisole is a light sensitive medication so you will need to black the tank for 24hr during treatment@FishGuy919

Edited March 18, 2023 by Colu

[FishGuy919]

@Colu Okay just to make sure I understand. 

- Day 1: dose tank with expel p and turn off lights

- Day 2: 24 hours later water change

- Days 3 - 7 - dose metroplex and mix with food per instructions. 

Repeat Expel P every week in total of 4 times. 

Repeat metroplex food for total of 3 weeks for all days. 

A few questions:

What is the intent of repeating expel P treatment 4 times?

Should I treat the whole tank with Expel P or separate the sick fish?

Will this cause any issues with my nitrogen cycle?

What should do if my puffer wont eat the medicated food?

Thanks!

 

 

- 

Edited March 18, 2023 by FishGuy919

[Colu]

On 3/18/2023 at 1:41 PM, FishGuy919 said:

@Colu Okay just to make sure I understand. 

- Day 1: dose tank with expel p and turn off lights

- Day 2: 24 hours later water change

- Days 3 - 7 - dose metroplex and mix with food per instructions. 

Repeat Expel P every week in total of 4 times. 

Repeat metroplex food for total of 3 weeks for all days. 

A few questions:

What is the intent of repeating expel P treatment 4 times?

Should I treat the whole tank with Expel P or separate the sick fish?

Will this cause any issues with my nitrogen cycle?

What should do if my puffer wont eat the medicated food?

Thanks!

 

 

- 

Yes that's correct the reason you repeat Expel p once a week for 4 weeks to kill the parasites that hatch inbetween treatment it can take four course of treatment to deal with the parasites that cause wasting disease feed a small amount of the medicated food twice for upto 21 days if there not eating the medicated food then I would dose the tank 

[FishGuy919]

Dosed the tank with Expel P and turned lights off for 24 hours. Will clean travel and do a water change. 

The puffer is still not eating this AM and had another long stringy white poop hanging from it this AM. The Leopard is only able to swallow flakes. 

Now for the metroplex/HITH issue. Should I remove the leopard and put it in a quarantine tank and treat it for HITH? Or should I just medicate the whole tank?

Thoughts on what to do for the puffer that isnt eating? Thoughts on the leopard that cant seem to swallow larger food?

Thanks!

@Colu

[FishGuy919]

One other thing to mention. My KH has always been very low.  Like undetectably low  with the API test kit. I have never notice in wild PH swings in my tank though.  But just thought I would mention this.  @Colu

[Colu]

On 3/20/2023 at 12:12 PM, FishGuy919 said:

Dosed the tank with Expel P and turned lights off for 24 hours. Will clean travel and do a water change. 

The puffer is still not eating this AM and had another long stringy white poop hanging from it this AM. The Leopard is only able to swallow flakes. 

Now for the metroplex/HITH issue. Should I remove the leopard and put it in a quarantine tank and treat it for HITH? Or should I just medicate the whole tank?

Thoughts on what to do for the puffer that isnt eating? Thoughts on the leopard that cant seem to swallow larger food?

Thanks!

@Colu

If your fish are struggling to eat the medicated food I would is just dose tank with metroplex to make sure they are getting enough of medication 24hr after you have treated with levamisole as they all need to be dewormed I would just keep them to together it will be more stressful separating him at this point the parasite that causes wasting disease causes throat irritation that can take a couple of days after treatment before you will start to see any signs of improvement you could try feeding your puffer freeze dried blood worms if you can source live  blacks worms or offer a selection of  frozen foods you break open the snails shell and then drop it in the tank add some garlic guard to his food it can help simulate appetite I would only start to worry if they start to develop sunken bellys

[FishGuy919]

I will start Metroplex tomorrow. If I dose Metroplex should I just follow the instructions? Or do you have a different protocol I should follow?

DIRECTIONS: Use 1-2 measures (included) for every 40 L (10 US gallons). Repeat every 2 days for up to 3 weeks or until symptoms disappear. Turn off UV, ozone, and chemical filtration. 

Also, I have paracleanse. Paracleanse vs metroplex, they both have metronidazol. Is one preferred over the other? 

As far as the puffer eating I have tried a bunch of different things. He usually eats snails, brine shrimp, and blood worms. I tried soaking brine shrimp in garlic guard but it didnt work. If he still doesnt eat by tomorrow I will try something freeze dried. I can check for live black worms. Do live black worms pose any kind of disease risk to the tank? I do have some cherry shrimp in a breeder box in the same tank, he has been eyeing them, so if I get desperate I could put the puffer in that breeder box and see if he goes for them. 

Thank you so much for your help!  I really do appreciate it.

Edited March 20, 2023 by FishGuy919

[Colu]

On 3/20/2023 at 2:59 PM, FishGuy919 said:

I will start Metroplex tomorrow. If I dose Metroplex should I just follow the instructions? Or do you have a different protocol I should follow?

DIRECTIONS: Use 1-2 measures (included) for every 40 L (10 US gallons). Repeat every 2 days for up to 3 weeks or until symptoms disappear. Turn off UV, ozone, and chemical filtration. 

Also, I have paracleanse. Paracleanse vs metroplex, they both have metronidazol. Is one preferred over the other? 

As far as the puffer eating I have tried a bunch of different things. He usually eats snails, brine shrimp, and blood worms. I tried soaking brine shrimp in garlic guard but it didnt work. If he still doesnt eat by tomorrow I will try something freeze dried. I can check for live black worms. Do live black worms pose any kind of disease risk to the tank? I do have some cherry shrimp in a breeder box in the same tank, he has been eyeing them, so if I get desperate I could put the puffer in that breeder box and see if he goes for them. 

Thank you so much for your help!  I really do appreciate it.

It depends on the source of black worms theirs a small risk with any live foods  metroplex has more of active ingredient metronidazole so it more effective at treating the parasite hexamita  causes hole in the head I would treat with metroplex inbetween treatment of Expel p 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Colu

[FishGuy919]

Update.

Following the protocol. 

Leaf fish is eating but still struggling to swallow different foods. The patches on his head look a lot better. 

Puffer doesnt try to eat much. He tried a blood worm but just spat it out. 

[Colu]

On 3/23/2023 at 5:35 PM, FishGuy919 said:

Update.

Following the protocol. 

Leaf fish is eating but still struggling to swallow different foods. The patches on his head look a lot better. 

Puffer doesnt try to eat much. He tried a blood worm but just spat it out. 

Have you tried crushing the shells of your snails then dropping them in it might be easy for him to swallow

[FishGuy919]

On 3/23/2023 at 8:44 PM, Colu said:

Have you tried crushing the shells of your snails then dropping them in it might be easy for him to swallow

I'll give this a try, I will also see if I can find live black worms or live baby brine shrimp. 

[FishGuy919]

Update, dosed tank with 2nd dose of Expel P earlier this week. Dosing metroplex per instructions in between. 

The leopard's hole in head looks really good, improved a lot. He is still having issues swallowing food but he's able to eat smaller pieces of food and has been really active. 

Worried about the puffer. Tried snails without the shell and it didnt work. He will attack snails if he sees them but he doesnt seem to eat them. Just seems more like his predator instinct kicks in and he wants them dead. I am going to try live scuds next. Per Dan's fish they are a puffer favorite. 

[Colu]

On 3/30/2023 at 7:57 AM, FishGuy919 said:

Update, dosed tank with 2nd dose of Expel P earlier this week. Dosing metroplex per instructions in between. 

The leopard's hole in head looks really good, improved a lot. He is still having issues swallowing food but he's able to eat smaller pieces of food and has been really active. 

Worried about the puffer. Tried snails without the shell and it didnt work. He will attack snails if he sees them but he doesnt seem to eat them. Just seems more like his predator instinct kicks in and he wants them dead. I am going to try live scuds next. Per Dan's fish they are a puffer favorite. 

Has the puffer started to lose weight or develope a sunken belly if not it's possible it's eating small amounts of food