Quarantine trio crashed cycle - suggestions on next steps?

[Xaos]

I hate that my first post here is this one, but I could use some guidance with this situation. I recently discovered Aquarium Co-Op and have quarantined my newest additions according to the FAQ on using the quarantine medication trio.

The fish: 2 juvenile snow white bristlenose plecos, plus a small mystery snail that escaped the evacuation.

The tank: 10g with a couple of plants, a sponge filter, and a HOB. Fully cycled and previously occupied by a group of neon tetras and mystery snails.

I got the fish in yesterday, and this evening the tank is testing with ~0.25 ammonia and nitrites on an API master test, so my assumption is that the meds crashed the cycle (as the bottles warned is possible). I dosed some StressGuard and Prime, but I'm not sure what to do. Per the quarantine instructions I'm not due for a water change for another six days, and I've got AmGuard on the way but it'll be Wednesday (five days) until it arrives, so I'll have to water change before then, I'm assuming. Any advice appreciated.

[mynameisnobody]

@Xaos seems to me that the med trio has nothing to with it. 2 bn pleco’s and a mystery snail is a ton of bio load in 1 shot. Adding water conditioner can also mess with your beneficial bacteria. Do you have a larger aquarium? 2 full grown bristlenose’s in a 10 is really, really tight and as you just learned, water parameters can and will change in an instant. 

[Xaos]

@mynameisnobody The tank was previously cycled, and there was no meaningful break between removing the school that was in it beforehand & adding the plecos, there was plenty of bacteria and it has been dosed with prime pretty regularly, so I'm fairly certain it was the medications. Yes, I have larger aquariums, this is just a quarantine tank - I'm very aware of their space requirements. They are juveniles (~1.5 in each).

[DeadStang]

My tank was cycled but not seasoned and I got a nitrite spike when I tried to Tx the tank. I did a 50% water change immediately and blew off doing the treatment.

[Xaos]

@DeadStang Yeah, stopping treatment is looking like is going to be the best option. I was skeptical about the method and I guess I've learned my lesson. Did your cycle & fish recover?

[jwcarlson]

The only thing I treat for prophylacticly is worms.  I use pure levamisole.  Unless I see a symptom, I don't bother with anything else. 

I don't think the med trio has messed up my cycle when I've done it, but haven't done it a lot.

In a ten gallon just do a 50% water change every day until your cycle catches up.  It shouldn't take long.

[AllFishNoBrakes]

I have multiple QT tanks/grow out tanks and haven’t in 3 years noticed that the meds crashed the cycle. These tanks regularly house 1 fish to 50 fish and I personally haven’t had any problems. For instance, I currently have 1 Furcata Rainbow in a tank with light salt and an Indian Almond Leaf, and the tank next to it I have 50 Bristlenose juveniles and 10 Cory juveniles. In my opinion, it’s all based on what you feed

[Xaos]

@AllFishNoBrakes Guess that's just my luck. Any other suggestions? Per the faq instructions they've been fed nothing, so that's not a variable.

[nabokovfan87]

On 3/10/2023 at 6:50 PM, Xaos said:

The tank: 10g with a couple of plants, a sponge filter, and a HOB. Fully cycled and previously occupied by a group of neon tetras and mystery snails.

How is the filter setup? are you using cartridges or ceramic media?  A photo of the tank helps as well.

Did you add an airstone following adding meds? (an additional one, not having one)

[Pepere]

When I dose a tank with med trio I dont feed and I test daily.

I have seen times the cycle wobbles and I have seen times it gets wiped out and I have seen times it has been unfazed..

0.25 ppm would not faze me.  I would continue to watch it.  Once ammonia rises to 1 ppm I start to think about it closer.  If water is low ph, 7.0 or less I might even let it go a bit higher.  I would suspect without feeding you can easily go 3-4 days until it reaches that.

 

Then I would water change and redose.

That should get you a few more days…

 

I always have double sponge filters that suction cup to tank walls in other tanks running that I can put in the quarantine tank once treatment week is done and meds are waterchanged out.  I also will clean out filters in other tanks to add squeezings to the quarantine tank after water changing out the meds.

Having 3 display tanks, I never use any bacteria in a bottle products.  To be honest if I was starting over I would never buy bacteria in a bottle products as I never perceived any benefit from them.

[Mmiller2001]

The maracyn definitely hit the BB and going forward, I would target feed the antibiotics while using paracleanse and Inch X. This way the cycle is maintained. There are recipes on how to do this posted by @Colu

[Colu]

On 3/11/2023 at 2:11 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

The maracyn definitely hit the BB and going forward, I would target feed the antibiotics while using paracleanse and Inch X. This way the cycle is maintained. There are recipes on how to do this posted by @Colu

Here's a recipe your can use with maracyn or maracyn2 I would only use this if you have an active infection not as a preventive treatment @Xaos

[Xaos]

Thanks for the advise all - retesting now and will try to get a picture up when I get results.

@nabokovfan87 - cartridges and yes, added an airstone. The guys are very active and seem to be handling everything well.

@Pepere - thanks, I held off of water changing yesterday because I'm not too worried about 0.25-0.5, but I'm not sure I'll end up redosing. I agree, I got a bottle of bacteria for Christmas and it didn't do a thing for my 55g.

@Mmiller2001 & @Colu - thanks! If I need to treat going forward I'll definitely do this. 

[Xaos]

Nitrites have bounced back to 0 and ammonia is holding at 0.25 or less, so hopefully that's the worst of it. I'll test again tonight and then resume daily testing, hopefully will be able to complete the quarantine as instructed.

The bad news - apparently my wife snuck a dose of the bottled bacteria we got for Christmas in there last night, and now she's convinced it worked. Send help, lol.

Fingers crossed for these guys - my first snow whites.

[nabokovfan87]

On 3/11/2023 at 7:21 AM, Xaos said:

@nabokovfan87 - cartridges and yes, added an airstone. The guys are very active and seem to be handling everything well.

Which filter? You're very likely going to want to modify things to use sponge and potentially ceramic media. The reason is just that it'll support more bacteria and that bacteria will be in the filter. When you change cartridges, you're throwing out some of your biological filtration, resulting in lower capacity. 

Looks like an internal one. Something like this...

 

[Xaos]

@nabokovfan87 Thanks! It's a Tetra i10-30 - a little bit different but same basic principle. I've pimped the filters on my other tanks, but this video gave some interesting techniques. I think I'm going to hold off on this one for the short-term for budget reasons, we've been able to avoid those issues so far by overlapping cartridges and while that isn't the most convenient, I don't really like the filter in general and may not need it in the long run.

[Xaos]

For anyone still following or looking at this in the future - the cycle recovered, did see a wobble but never hit a full ppm of ammonia or nitrite, and back down to 0 of both by the end of the week so we completed the quarantine as directed (1 packet of Maracyn, 1 packet of ParaCleanse, and 1 U.S. teaspoon of Ich-X for a 10-gallon, no food for a week, 30% water change at the end of the week). I will not be redosing, and will hopefully add these guys to my 55-gallon in a few more weeks.

In the future, I think I'll stick to ParaCleanse for asymptomatic quarantines & dose Ich-X / target feed Maracyn if indicated. Thanks again to all who provided advice & support.

[Pepere]

You may wish to dose Paracleanse again in two weeks to kill any parasites that hatches from expelled eggs that hatch.

 

I have had complete loss of cycle from med trio before, but now I am simply prepared for that eventuality.  
 

Given the amount of repacking and combining in the trade with wholesalers and the stress of shipment, I choose to treat with full med trio even if they look healthy when I get them.  I figure the amount of antibiotic they are exposed to is minimal compared to the amount they will get if they start showing signs of infection.  If I can nip it in the bud before signs occur, great…

alternatively you might want to quarantine with a week or two of Aquarium salt and paracleanse…

[Tazalanche]

I know I'm a little late to the party, but wanted to add my 2 cents. @Xaos, you're not alone in what happened. While the med trio doesn't affect all types of beneficial bacteria, it does affect some & that might be the primary type that you have in your tanks. Also, keep in mind that ancistrus are very resilient fish, even as babies over 1" long. A true tank cycle crash will rarely kill them.

I have 20H tanks that are used only for quarantine, so after the QT, they're fully drained & dried. They're left empty until I feel the need to get more fish. In order to have a cycled tank for new arrivals, I always have a large Aquarium Co-Op sponge filter running in each of my primary community tanks (135 gallon for the larger fish & 55 gallon for the nano sized fish). I have performed the below steps for all of the following types of aquatic critters I keep: neocaridinia shrimp, ancistrus (marbled, albino, & golden blue eye), nerite snails, assassin snails, chilli rasboras, dwarf emerald rasboras, celestial pearl danios, pygmy corydoras, sterbai corydoras, cardinal tetras, congo tetras, zebra loaches, yoyo loaches, angelicus loaches, spotted raphael catfish, striped raphael catfish, german blue rams, electric blue rams, german gold rams, threadfin rainbows & american flag fish.  

Here's a daily breakdown of my quarantine process.

• Day 1: The morning the fish are scheduled to arrive, I fill the tank, plug in the Aquarium Co-Op heater 30 minutes later. When the temp matches the tank that the new arrivals will end up calling their home, I pull the sponge filter from that tank & put it in the QT tank. The fish arrive some time between 9:00-11:00am & go through acclimation into their quarantine tank. That evening, I feed them.
• Day 2: The next morning, I do the quarantine med trio, as directed by Cory.
• Day 3: The following morning, the tank is VERY cloudy. I do nothing.
• Day 4: It's better, but still a little cloudy. I do nothing.
• Day 5: it's back to normal & I continue the QT as directed.

Knowing you are not alone in your experience, I hope my explanation helps alleviate your concerns. Have a great day!

Edited Sunday at 04:44 PM by Tazalanche

[Sherry]

On 3/19/2023 at 11:29 AM, Tazalanche said:While the med trio doesn't affect all types of beneficial bacteria, it does affect some & that might be the primary type that you have in your tanks.

Thank you for this explanation. I had a disaster in my only tank (10 gallon) so I have been confused by all the different experiences.

I started over and added more plants. Now I’m testing daily watching the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels change (Using fish food to cycle, and dosing with Easy Green). I’m at zero ammonia and at 1 ppm nitrites and between 25 and 50 ppm nitrates.

I plan to buy fish when my nitrites get to zero, and I put in an extra sponge filter to pull out and use in my quarantine tub so I won’t be risking my whole aquarium when I add meds.

I hope I haven’t overlooked anything.