Plant problem solution causing shrimp problem

[Cinnebuns]

Ok, I've asked dozens of people what the issue is in this tank. I thought I had the solution and was worried it would cause issues with the shrimp. It seems I was right because now I've had 2 deaths in 2 days when I haven't had any deaths in months. One death was a berried momma. Maybe someone can figure this one out finally. I might have to beg the apartment complex to let me use the RO system I have that they keep putting off giving me permission to use.  

This may get long because I want to give full info...

This is a 10 gallon tank which contains blue dream shrimp. I also use it to hatch panda cory eggs so it always has eggs and young fry in it as well. The fry get taken out when they get full finage. It originally was bare bottom but has had a black sand substrate for about 4 months. The tank has been setup about a year but it has held shrimp for about 9 months. Shrimp and fry have both been thriving up until now. 

The PH, KH and GH in this tank is higher than is normal for shrimp. Part of that is because the source I got the original shrimp from kept them even higher. He kept them at PH = 8.2, KH = 14 and GH = 16. I actually deliberately sought out someone keeping them in higher than usual parameters to make it easier on me since I've yet to get permission from my landlord to setup RO (grr). My tap is PH = 8.2, KH = 14 and GH = 21. Nuts and bolts. To lower the GH I age the water and take only water off the top. The source water is PH = 8.2, KH = 14 and GH = 14.  

The problem has mostly been with plants. Almost all die in the tank pretty quickly. Whenever I introduce plants, including duckweed and other easy plants, I get a spike of brown algae around the walls. Then the plants slowly die away. I used to have a very large portion of flame moss in the tank which is still around, but slowly going away. I have also been able to somehow keep a hygrophilia, which I keep forgetting which kind, alive in there. It's not growing much if at all though. I was able to get some growth once from it but not since. 

After trying to figure out this issue for awhile, I realized the KH was being depleted in the tank. Possibly from the shrimp? Although the KH added to the tank is 14, it was testing at 7. In addition, the PH wasn't changing at all and staying at 8.2. I don't have full understanding of the issue here but after talking to many people I decided to add a small amount of crushed coral. I was worried about it then making the GH and PH rise so I tested many times since. 

Just before adding the crushed coral I had to do a few water changes over a few weeks. I had a population boom in the cory fry which caused ammonia, nitrite and nitrate to spike. At no time during these water changes did i lose any shrimp but I did lose fry. Those water changes are why the KH is higher than the 7 I found a few weeks previous. 

Here's a list of the readings I've done recently:

2-22-23

 

PH: 8.2

KH: 10

GH: 14

 

Water change

 

2-23-23

 

PH: 8.2

KH: 11.5

GH: 14

 

2-26-23

 

PH: 8.2

KH: 11

GH: 14

 

3-3-23

 

PH: 8.3

KH: 9

GH: 15

 

3-5-23

 

PH: 8.3

KH: 9

GH: 15

As I feared, the PH and GH are going up but only slightly. I have noticed no brown algae at all, which previous weeks there had been, but now I'm seeing shrimp deaths. Part of me is worried it's because of the GH. 14 may be acceptable but 15 not. I however am not entirely convinced the deaths were from a failed molt. I saw no ring of death which, from my understanding, is the indication of a failed molt. 

So, where does that leave me for both the plants and the shrimp? Is it RO time? Is aging the water having some sort of negative effect? Should I take some or all of the crushed coral out?  

Idk if I forgot any details of this tank's story but if I do I'll update it. I tried to be as complete as possible. 

Pic 1 is the tank

Pic 2 is how much crushed coral I put in

Pic 3 is the berried momma right after I discovered her dead.

[nabokovfan87]

On 3/5/2023 at 9:42 PM, Cinnebuns said:

One death was a berried momma.

Unfortunately this is common for a few reasons.  The most common one I've seen / experienced is PH (causes a weird molt) or a female that is literally refusing to molt for the sake of the eggs and then she gets stuck because the molt is too thick/hard and she cannot molt anymore.  I think the vast majority of female shrimp deaths fall into that second category. 

Essentially female shrimp die from stress of some capacity.  Most of that causes molting too early or not enough.  For something like amanos you can see them get almost black because of how thick the shell gets.  On blue shrimp I have heard/been told that they do darken as they are about to molt, then a bright, vibrant blue after molt.
 

On 3/5/2023 at 9:42 PM, Cinnebuns said:

Just before adding the crushed coral I had to do a few water changes over a few weeks. I had a population boom in the cory fry which caused ammonia, nitrite and nitrate to spike. At no time during these water changes did i lose any shrimp but I did lose fry. Those water changes are why the KH is higher than the 7 I found a few weeks previous. 

What was the PH prior to adding the CC?  Apart from buffering KH, what is the reason for adding CC?

 

On 3/5/2023 at 9:42 PM, Cinnebuns said:

Pic 2 is how much crushed coral I put in

Not a cause of any issue whatsoever.  Not the cause of PH shifting or anything. 

 

On 3/5/2023 at 9:42 PM, Cinnebuns said:

So, where does that leave me for both the plants and the shrimp? Is it RO time? Is aging the water having some sort of negative effect? Should I take some or all of the crushed coral out?  

Yes and no.  My question would be how do you use "aged water"?  What is the specific setup to age it?  Is it oxygenated?

My guess is something is going on with the tap (weather, rain, snow, etc affecting things before it gets to you) or something like farmland contaminants.

On 3/5/2023 at 9:42 PM, Cinnebuns said:

It originally was bare bottom but has had a black sand substrate for about 4 months.

what is the sand?  BDBS?  (not saying it is, but just a note that for shrimp, because of the metals, you'd want to use something very much inert/safe, some batches of BDBS might not be.)  If it is BDBS, take a little bit out and dry it, then run it under a decently strong magnet to test for any metals.  You can also check and see if you notice any rusted particles.

@knee Which Hygro is that do you think?  Hygrophila corymbosa 'Siamensis'?

 

 

On 3/5/2023 at 9:42 PM, Cinnebuns said:

Last question, I apologize, I know there's a lot of them.  Do you have any other females that look milky at all? This one passed, the flesh usually turns white, but do you have any alive that are milky white under the shell?  here's an example of what it'd look like.

[nabokovfan87]

Secondary topic of what plants might do better in your water.  This is from an article specifically about GH:

https://www.2hraquarist.com/blogs/ph-kh-gh-tds/gh-explained

Quote

As calcium is present in most tap water, calcium deficiencies are very rare in planted aquariums. Almost all cases of tip stunting attributed to calcium deficiency are mis-diagnosed and are caused by other variables instead. Some species such as Rotala florida, Cryptocoryne flamingo and Pogostemon helferi do appreciate higher Calcium levels. They grow faster and more robust with sufficient Calcium in the water. Some sensitive species such as Rotala macrandra also do better when Magnesium levels are sufficient.

Same website, an article about KH:

https://www.2hraquarist.com/blogs/ph-kh-gh-tds/kh-explained

Quote

Between 6 -12+ dKH you can probably grow 95% of species well, but some will be sub-optimal. Above 18 dKH or so, more plant growth issues start arising - at this level, hardy plants such as Java fern, Anubias, Vals, certain Swords and Crypts will still grow well, but many other species will stunt.

Quote

KH has a significant impact on livestock osmoregulation, and should not be changed rapidly for sensitive species such as ornamental dwarf shrimps. A 3dKH swing in KH value is significant enough to stress sensitive livestock. When purchasing such livestock, it makes sense to get them from a dealer with similar water parameters to your own.

If you need to prioritize one parameter to keep stable; keep the KH stable.

Managing water parameters well allows one to keep sensitive livestock in a planted tank.