Barb Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Hi all, I had a 4 day power outage recently here in Michigan. I had battery operated air pumps that worked great. And I covered my aquarium to try and retain heat. But it got too cold for too long, and I lost half my fish. I know that you can buy large battery back ups now, and was wondering if anyone had experience using one to power aquarium heaters? Does anyone have any experience with brands that might make someone either want to get that brand, or want to avoid it for that purpose? thanks so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCH Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Maybe a small honda generator . 1000kw . If your in the situation to have one . Can't where I am at now or I would . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Vercetti Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 I have used the small Honda generator this way. Works good and you can use it to power other things. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepere Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) Heating with electricity is a bit of bear. The load plus duty cycle craws down power quickly. Running a generator to make electric heat is incredibly wasteful. The generator at best converts about 30% of the energy value of the fuel in to electricity… an UPs unless you go for something like an ecoflow delta pro at $3,600.00 is going to run out of power within an hour if you try to run a heater…… long and short of it, a battery back up sufficient to keep your tanks heated will run you over a grand. Do you want to budget that? alternatively, running a camp stove to heat water and judiciously adding it to the tank would be pretty cheap. I would probably use soda bottles and heat water and pour them in the sodabottles and float the bottles in the tank, but you will need to keep an eye on the tank… If you can stomach a grand or two for battery back up suitable it is doable…. Powerqueen makes nice Lithium Phosphate batteries that are attractively priced considering their cycle life span,(ie you can deplete 100% rated amp hour capacity daily for 10 years and still have 80% battery capacity…). A 200 amp hour battery stores roughly 2 killowatts of usable power for around $600.00. Excellent bms built in to the battery. Excellent amperage draw ability… battery weighs about 56 lbs IIRC so easy enough to bring somewhere with power to recharge or buy solar panels to bring outside to top off… The battery back up with inverter has major advantages over generators. They are silent and dont produce carbon monoxide. You can keep them inside and need not fear theft like gas generators..,. On 3/2/2023 at 2:44 PM, GCH said: Maybe a small honda generator . 1000kw More likely 1,000 watts. 1,000 killowatt generator would be a beast! Edited March 2 by Pepere 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCH Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 On 3/2/2023 at 5:13 PM, Pepere said: Heating with electricity is a bit of bear. The load plus duty cycle craws down power quickly. Running a generator to make electric heat is incredibly wasteful. The generator at best converts about 30% of the energy value of the fuel in to electricity… an UPs unless you go for something like an ecoflow delta pro at $3,600.00 is going to run out of power within an hour if you try to run a heater…… long and short of it, a battery back up sufficient to keep your tanks heated will run you over a grand. Do you want to budget that? alternatively, running a camp stove to heat water and judiciously adding it to the tank would be pretty cheap. I would probably use soda bottles and heat water and pour them in the sodabottles and float the bottles in the tank, but you will need to keep an eye on the tank… If you can stomach a grand or two for battery back up suitable it is doable…. Powerqueen makes nice Lithium Phosphate batteries that are attractively priced considering their cycle life span,(ie you can deplete 100% rated amp hour capacity daily for 10 years and still have 80% battery capacity…). A 200 amp hour battery stores roughly 2 killowatts of usable power for around $600.00. Excellent bms built in to the battery. Excellent amperage draw ability… battery weighs about 56 lbs IIRC so easy enough to bring somewhere with power to recharge or buy solar panels to bring outside to top off… The battery back up with inverter has major advantages over generators. They are silent and dont produce carbon monoxide. You can keep them inside and need not fear theft like gas generators..,. More likely 1,000 watts. 1,000 killowatt generator would be a beast! My bad .... 1000 watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCH Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 On 3/2/2023 at 5:13 PM, Pepere said: Heating with electricity is a bit of bear. The load plus duty cycle craws down power quickly. Running a generator to make electric heat is incredibly wasteful. The generator at best converts about 30% of the energy value of the fuel in to electricity… an UPs unless you go for something like an ecoflow delta pro at $3,600.00 is going to run out of power within an hour if you try to run a heater…… long and short of it, a battery back up sufficient to keep your tanks heated will run you over a grand. Do you want to budget that? alternatively, running a camp stove to heat water and judiciously adding it to the tank would be pretty cheap. I would probably use soda bottles and heat water and pour them in the sodabottles and float the bottles in the tank, but you will need to keep an eye on the tank… If you can stomach a grand or two for battery back up suitable it is doable…. Powerqueen makes nice Lithium Phosphate batteries that are attractively priced considering their cycle life span,(ie you can deplete 100% rated amp hour capacity daily for 10 years and still have 80% battery capacity…). A 200 amp hour battery stores roughly 2 killowatts of usable power for around $600.00. Excellent bms built in to the battery. Excellent amperage draw ability… battery weighs about 56 lbs IIRC so easy enough to bring somewhere with power to recharge or buy solar panels to bring outside to top off… The battery back up with inverter has major advantages over generators. They are silent and dont produce carbon monoxide. You can keep them inside and need not fear theft like gas generators..,. More likely 1,000 watts. 1,000 killowatt generator would be a beast! How would you transfer the power to the aquarium ? Heater and all . Looks like a car battery type hook up . Be nice if it just had some plugs . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 Thanks to you all! Such great information!!! I’m thinking I’ll get a camping stove as suggested. Barb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepere Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 On 3/2/2023 at 5:51 PM, GCH said: How would you transfer the power to the aquarium ? Heater and all . Looks like a car battery type hook up . Be nice if it just had some plugs . The Ecoflow delta pro is an all in one battery inverter charger set up. https://us.ecoflow.com 3.6 kwhr capacity, 3600 watt output. You can plug it in to a BEV car charger, hook up solar panels etc.. It is also 3,700.00roughly. But it is largely plug and play. You dont need toshop for other parts and do wiring…. the Powerqueen is just a battery. You would need a suitable inverter, battery charger, and do the wiring. You would need pretty big cables from battery to inverter, and you would also want a large main fuse with a very high ampere interupt capacity. (AIC rating) that last point is crucial as a dead short with the kind of capacity this battery has could be pretty specatucular, though the BMS might well have it covered. I tend to like backup safety and the fuse is pretty cheap safety in the grand scheme of things. The Ecoflow has a true sine wave inverter. You could get a modified sine wave inverter that would work just fine for aquarium heaters and air pumps and filter pumps and it would be much cheaper than the true sine wave inverter… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt B Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 I've found there are many options. Not all work for everybody and their specific situations, that's for sure. Nothing is really cheap, efficient and easy. Sources of power are what they are. We loose power often enough, that we now have a generator for us and the creatures in the glass boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepere Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 On 3/2/2023 at 6:58 PM, Barb said: I’m thinking I’ll get a camping stove as suggested. It is the much cheaper route, and tou will be happy to have a camp stove to be able to cook for you as well. Propane are less fiddly than liquid fuel stoves. They are not intended for indoors use… it takes 1 btu to raise 1 pound of water one degree Fahrenheit. 2 pounds per quart, 8 pounds per gallon. say you have a 50 gallon tank, thats 400 gallons of water. It is 72, and you want to raise it to 78. Thats 2,400 btus you need to add to the tank. a 2 liter soda bottle with 140 degree water in it will have roughly 280 btus it can transfer to the tank.. . So doing the math you are looking at about 8 bottles to carry enough btus to the tank. You dont need to put them in all at once, and you dont need to let the tank get down to 72 before warming it up. If you start at 75 degrees warming it back up youcut your bottle count in half. why did I choose 140 degrees? It is roughly the half way point between boiling and 70 degrees. If your bottle is near 70, and you pour half the water in to a pot and heat it to boiling and then fill the bottle back up using a funnel and being very careful… your water bottle will be about 140. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCH Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 On 3/2/2023 at 7:55 PM, Pepere said: The Ecoflow delta pro is an all in one battery inverter charger set up. https://us.ecoflow.com 3.6 kwhr capacity, 3600 watt output. You can plug it in to a BEV car charger, hook up solar panels etc.. It is also 3,700.00roughly. But it is largely plug and play. You dont need toshop for other parts and do wiring…. the Powerqueen is just a battery. You would need a suitable inverter, battery charger, and do the wiring. You would need pretty big cables from battery to inverter, and you would also want a large main fuse with a very high ampere interupt capacity. (AIC rating) that last point is crucial as a dead short with the kind of capacity this battery has could be pretty specatucular, though the BMS might well have it covered. I tend to like backup safety and the fuse is pretty cheap safety in the grand scheme of things. The Ecoflow has a true sine wave inverter. You could get a modified sine wave inverter that would work just fine for aquarium heaters and air pumps and filter pumps and it would be much cheaper than the true sine wave inverter… I want one.... lol .... I have great plans where that would be useful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepere Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 On 3/2/2023 at 8:20 PM, GCH said: want one.... lol .... I have great plans where that would be useful They are nice units. You can combine two units to give split phase 240/120 with special combiner cord units. Nicely portable with built in wheels and telescoping handle… but kinda pricey… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCH Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 On 3/2/2023 at 8:28 PM, Pepere said: They are nice units. You can combine two units to give split phase 240/120 with special combiner cord units. Nicely portable with built in wheels and telescoping handle… but kinda pricey… While your doing the math ..lol. What could you run, say for lights and computer for how long ? If you don't mind this is useful info . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepere Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 3.6 killowatt hours… you need to determine your attached load and your duty cycle… how many watts does the computer and lights consume? power consumption of a computer is hard to guess. How you use it affects its power use considerably.. a Kill A Watt meter allows you to plug the device into an outlet and the item you want to measure into the meter. It then logs how many killowatt hours it consumes for the time period measured. my dehumidifier is plugged in to a meter. It consumes 347 watts when running. That is its connected load The duty cycle is how much it runs in a given time period. It is reporting it consumes 70 kwhrs in 708 hrs of time That is roughly 2.4 killowatt hours per day. 100 watts per hour. So apparently I have a little less than a 30% run time on the dehumidifier… because I run the dehumidifier in my well insulated bedroom the temp of the room stays around 73 degrees as the water vapor from the aquariums condensing on the coils liberates a fair amount of heat. As such, the aquarium heaters rarely run. 2, 29 gallon tanks and 20 gallon tank. We use roughly 10 killowatt hours per day to run everything we use per day in our home. A kill a watt meter can really help you figure out your power needs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCH Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 On 3/2/2023 at 9:19 PM, Pepere said: 3.6 killowatt hours… you need to determine your attached load and your duty cycle… how many watts does the computer and lights consume? power consumption of a computer is hard to guess. How you use it affects its power use considerably.. a Kill A Watt meter allows you to plug the device into an outlet and the item you want to measure into the meter. It then logs how many killowatt hours it consumes for the time period measured. my dehumidifier is plugged in to a meter. It consumes 347 watts when running. That is its connected load The duty cycle is how much it runs in a given time period. It is reporting it consumes 70 kwhrs in 708 hrs of time That is roughly 2.4 killowatt hours per day. 100 watts per hour. So apparently I have a little less than a 30% run time on the dehumidifier… because I run the dehumidifier in my well insulated bedroom the temp of the room stays around 73 degrees as the water vapor from the aquariums condensing on the coils liberates a fair amount of heat. As such, the aquarium heaters rarely run. 2, 29 gallon tanks and 20 gallon tank. We use roughly 10 killowatt hours per day to run everything we use per day in our home. A kill a watt meter can really help you figure out your power needs. This the critter ? Would be helpful to see what I will need for electricity. https://www.amazon.com/Poniie-PN2000-Electricity-Electrical-Consumption/dp/B0777H8MS8/ref=sr_1_6?crid=PEBC3X7TJIJ&keywords=kilowatt+meter&qid=1677811050&sprefix=%2Caps%2C94&sr=8-6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepere Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 One of several brands that gets the job done. I cant speak to this particular brand… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Duck Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) On 3/2/2023 at 5:58 PM, Barb said: Thanks to you all! Such great information!!! I’m thinking I’ll get a camping stove as suggested. Barb Remember to use it in a well ventilated space. With no electric, you can’t run your stove vent hood, so you must run a fuel operated camp stove outdoors (or at least in an open garage). Edited March 3 by Odd Duck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon M Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 You can use water from your hot water tank. Fill bottles up with the water and float them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMongler Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 From the big freeze Texas had 2 years back, I was able to get through that with no losses just using sleeping bags to wrap my tanks, and battery powered air pumps to keep the gas exchange going. I was only out for 3 days, and all my fish were cool-water at the time, however. For future power loss here in Texas, I got a 2350 watt inverter-generator that I can use to keep fish tanks running in the event of normal powerloss, alongside things like my fridge and being able to charge devices. I still keep my battery air pumps around as well for shorter power loss/giving the generator a break. My future plans, more for hurricane related power loss, is to go for solar generators. They are basically large batteries with build in power inverters that allow you to output energy like a regular gasoline generator, that are also designed to be charged by solar panels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCH Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 On 3/3/2023 at 8:31 AM, RockMongler said: From the big freeze Texas had 2 years back, I was able to get through that with no losses just using sleeping bags to wrap my tanks, and battery powered air pumps to keep the gas exchange going. I was only out for 3 days, and all my fish were cool-water at the time, however. For future power loss here in Texas, I got a 2350 watt inverter-generator that I can use to keep fish tanks running in the event of normal powerloss, alongside things like my fridge and being able to charge devices. I still keep my battery air pumps around as well for shorter power loss/giving the generator a break. My future plans, more for hurricane related power loss, is to go for solar generators. They are basically large batteries with build in power inverters that allow you to output energy like a regular gasoline generator, that are also designed to be charged by solar panels. Have a link ? 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMongler Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 On 3/3/2023 at 7:40 AM, GCH said: Have a link ? 😊 I haven't purchased any solar generators yet, but an example product from a big box store is something like this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Jackery-200-Watt-Continuous-400-Watt-Peak-Push-Button-Start-Solar-Generator-290-with-1-Solar-Panel-100-Watt-for-Outdoors-SG290-100/317896031 It's sort of a particularly big power bank you might use for your phone, with plugs like you have on your wall, and with the hardware to be easily charged by moderately sized photo-voltaic solar panels. They can be small like this one, and you can even get ones big enough to power a small building. It's another option besides just fossil fuel powered generators or standard batteries to keep our systems running when the grid isn't functioning. I think they are going to be more expensive up front than gasoline generators of similar output, but are likely to need less long term maintenance (no need for fuel, no need to worry about things like oil changes). My use case for one is to charge with solar when I can, and charge with the gasoline generator when I can't, so I don't have to keep the gasoline generator running as much, and can store the energy it's creating for later. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepere Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) For emergency backup use, a gas powered generator is a much cheaper option than a battery storage portable energy station… in essence batteries are very expensive fuel tanks. a 2 killowatt hour battery costs about $600.00. The power from that battery can provide you 7,000 btus to heat your tanks. that is roughly the same heat energy as in 1 cup of kerosene… if you burn the kerosene in a liquid campstove and put a pot on it to heat water you are able to harvest about 50% of the heat liberated, so you actually need 2 cups…. If you use the fuel to run a generator and then use that electricity to run your electric heaters you would be ably to harvest about 25 - 30%, so you would need a out a quart. But you will certainly agree a quart gas tank would be much less than $600.00… Where big batteries and solar panels and inverters start to make more financial sense from an emergency standpoint is if you also use the set up to generate your daily use in addition to emergency back up… solar with grid tie in and no batteries makes decent financial sense compared to grid power cost. Batteries still make it more expensive than grid power, but emergency backup makes it attractive… Battery power stations though are certainly more pleasant to live with than a fuel generator due to lack of noise, ability to run inside and lack of carbon monoxide poisoning concerns with a fuel source generator. Carbon monoxide can pass through solid sheetrock since the molecules are so small… About that 2 killowatts? In Maine where the electricity rates are among the highest in the nation, would cost about seventy cents when you factor in inverter and charging losses. a gallon of kerosene is about $5.00, so a quart of it to run a generator and heat the water with an electric resistive element costs $1.25…. everything involves tradeoffs and risks and benefits… Edited March 3 by Pepere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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