i'm at a loss and this is long

[Grapevine89]

i didn't know if it could be possible that non harmful ammonia was created? I had seen a couple videos on how you can have 2 different kinds but they both show on the test.. but when i take the same tests o my new betta tank everything turns out great with no ammonia and nitrates and nitrites.

[Brandy]

2 hours ago, Grapevine89 said:

i didn't know if it could be possible that non harmful ammonia was created? I had seen a couple videos on how you can have 2 different kinds but they both show on the test.. but when i take the same tests o my new betta tank everything turns out great with no ammonia and nitrates and nitrites.

The "nonharmful ammonia" is ammonium. It is regular ammonia with a hydrogen stuck on it, which makes it less reactive. Most water conditioners like ammo lock do this, but it is temporary, which is why you have to keep adding the water conditioners every 24-48h. It will still show on the test and bacteria can still use it, but it won't hurt fish in that format. 

 

I would agree that the super high reading is really surprising, especially if it doesn't at least temporarily decrease after a large water change. Why not try this: test, change 50%, immediately test again. do this every other day for a few days. Your tap water tests at 0, so a 50% water change should lower that value significantly. If it climbs back up over the next few days it is something in the tank.

[Mike]

The smell could be the Ammo Lock. It's an amino-sulfinate, which has a very distinct fish + rotten egg smell.

[Hobbit]

What a saga. I feel for you @Grapevine89. Hang in there!

2 hours ago, Brandy said:

The "nonharmful ammonia" is ammonium... Most water conditioners like ammo lock do this... It will still show on the test and bacteria can still use it, but it won't hurt fish in that format.

This makes a lot of sense to me. I don’t think your test is wrong—I think you just have a lot of ammonia or ammonium in that water. I’m interested if you follow @Brandy’s idea of doing a 50% water change every other day and seeing if it goes down. It should. Just be aware that with that test result your ammonia could be a lot higher than 8ppm—8 is just the highest the test goes. So if you don’t see ammonia drop after a water change according to the test results, that could just be because it started a lot higher than 8.

One question just to rule out another variable—are the rocks/gravel you’re using specifically for fish tanks? Depending on what they’re made of, rocks can dissolve and leach things into the water, and that can cause problems.

Edited November 6, 2020 by Hobbit

[Grapevine89]

3 hours ago, Hobbit said:

What a saga. I feel for you @Grapevine89. Hang in there!

This makes a lot of sense to me. I don’t think your test is wrong—I think you just have a lot of ammonia or ammonium in that water. I’m interested if you follow @Brandy’s idea of doing a 50% water change every other day and seeing if it goes down. It should. Just be aware that with that test result your ammonia could be a lot higher than 8ppm—8 is just the highest the test goes. So if you don’t see ammonia drop after a water change according to the test results, that could just be because it started a lot higher than 8.

One question just to rule out another variable—are the rocks/gravel you’re using specifically for fish tanks? Depending on what they’re made of, rocks can dissolve and leach things into the water, and that can cause problems.

The gravel I have is the natural gravel at the pet store. I had a decoration in there where I saw paint had chipped off so I removed that last weekend. I think im done with painted decorations for sure.

[Dandy Pearl]

Some observations based on the postings. You are vacuuming your gravel way to often. If you are doing this every water change, you are doing more harm than good there. Alot of beneficial bacteria grow in the gravel. Try gavel vac'ing only once per month. Perform all of your other water changes by syphon only. The same thing goes for your filters. Don't clean them every water change. Again, only once per month AND not at the same time you gravel vac. Alternate your filter cleanings and gravel vac'ing such that one has the ability to replenish the other. If you clean all at once, you run the risk of wiping out your entire bacteria colony = Not good.

Slow your fish feeding way down to like every other day. They can take it until you get your ammonia under control.

Yes, water treatment can smell like sulfur, it's what happens. Follow the directions on the bottle and only treat the amount of water you replace, not the entire tank. If you can, treat the water before you add it to the tank.

Live plants are your friend. You can add fertilizer, but monitor nitrate levels between 20 and 30.

Don't add more fish, no matter how much you want to until you get the tank cycled. When things are under control, don't add fish the same day as or just after a water change. Give it at least 1 week and only add a few. Don't add more fish for another month.

Slow is your friend here to get things under control. The solution is not in the bottle, but in a well seasoned tank.

Good Luck!

 

[Grapevine89]

Thank you everyone!

[CanadaAmanda]

Ammolock ties up the ammonia, but it will still show up on a test from what I understand.  May want to opt for zeolite or another option next time you have a spike if you’d like to see the results in your test?

[E-Man]

Lots of good info in here, so I’m going to toss in mine.   Based on your posts it sounds like you’re just running in circles.  If it were me I would call the LFS or a friend and see if they have any seeded material (ie sponge or ceramic media) or mulm.  I would put that in the tank and give it a few days.  To me it sounds like you’re screwing up the cycle by trying to correct it.  Bacteria, like snails only populate to the demand (food supply).  If the amount of fish you have don’t produce a lot of ammonia you won’t have a lot of bacteria.  Adding new livestock just creates an imbalance.  

 Could be totally wrong, just my thoughts.

lrbaquatics.com sells mulm.
 

Don’t buy any more fish, you’re just wasting money.   

[Socqua]

Was just reading back through some random old posts and was curious if you ever resolved this, @Grapevine89?

[Grapevine89]

1 hour ago, Socqua said:

Was just reading back through some random old posts and was curious if you ever resolved this, @Grapevine89?

So i planted some crypts in the tank and they are growing new leaves. I added some of the medias from my 5 gal Im finally getting nitrates in the cycling process. The ammonia still comes up high but that happened in my 5 gal til the plants took off and now that tank reads 0 so ithink with time it will work out and until then its just one spoiled beta

[David Ellsworth]

From what you said when the tank leaked and you had to move to a new one you lost your cycle. But if they were gasping soon after getting put back in the fixed tank and die quickly that is some kind of poison. Maybe something toxic, but it could be not enough dechlorinator. Municipal water supplies can sometimes dump massive amounts of chlorine/chloramine in the water to flush things out, so I always put in way more dechlorinator than I need like 4 or 5 squirts in a 5 gallon bucket when 1 squirt treats 10 gallons. I also have chloramine in my water so there is ammonia in my tap water. 

 

Regardless I think you lost the cycle when you fixed the tank. Some beneficial bacteria is in the water but most in on the surfaces in the tank or the filtration system, anything in contact with the water. So if the tank dried out the bacteria died.

 

It sounds like you are doing well introducing stuff from another tank to seed bacteria. It will take a while for the cycle to establish again so keep up with the water tests to monitor ammonia and doing your water changes. Be sure to let the water set a few minutes for the dechlorinator to do its job and be safe. 

 

I'm sorry to hear about all your fish. It can be heartbreaking and difficult to lose so many over such a period of time, especially when you're not exactly sure of the entire cause.

Edited December 10, 2020 by David Ellsworth
For spelling and clarity